Bessekai Feature

PHY Vol. 5
December 2015

Interview text by Ishii Eriko

 

It feels like this is my life work to me
The one thing that I’d continue with for the rest of my life is probably this band

DER ZIBET is currently on their solo 30th anniversary tour with a show on 14th November in Tokyo, and on 22nd November in Osaka. Their 19th album “別世界 (Bessekai / Another World)” will be releasing on the 25th, and they will continue their vigorous activities as usual… but this is probably not something that can be written lightly. This is a band that has continued in their non-conformist ways since they first debuted because of their overwhelming sense of aesthetic and glamour. Even after going through label changes and a hiatus, their sound continues to ring on even now, aloof, without breaking down the high-strung fantasy world of theirs.

There are many songs in their new work, Bessekai, that gives us another good look at the nucleus of DER ZIBET. In other words, it is a masterpiece that is glamorous yet romantic, that is grand and decadent, that cannot be brushed aside as just another fantasy, that leaves behind a vividly sensual afterglow that seems to have no end. This is because of the charm of, as ISSAY puts it, [fiction]. Your own realism can be precisely constructed because it is [fiction].

In this extended interview, as he speaks of his thoughts and his frame of mind, a strong conviction can be felt behind his gentlemanly and calm manner of speech. Without a hint of [falsehood] or [factitiousness], they have continued on for 30 years. Seeing the strength of his smile as he equates DER ZIBET to his life work, once again, induces shivers.

 

When DER ZIBET debuted 30 years ago, there was as good as no scene in existence. Back then, what were you referred to as? How were you categorised?

ISSAY (I): Well, you know, we were all put together under one single category known as ＜European Decadance＞ (wry smile). There was that recognition that it was kind of easily picked up with just that alone though.

How did ISSAY, yourself, describe it in words? With regards to what DER ZIBET wanted to do, what you’re going to do, and such.

I: Back then, all I had was the image in my head that, in any case, I just wanted to bring out our aesthetic. You see, in this band called DER ZIBET, everyone’s musical preferences are all over the place. When the band came together, the one unanimous opinion that every one of us had was that ＜film music is interesting＞, that’s all. We’re not a band that came together because we liked a certain type of rock and wanted to play it, we came together because we thought that we’d be able to create something interesting if we played with these band members. Because of this, we’re always swaying around, here and there. So, sometimes we use a very rock-like approach, but other times, we stray far away from that, using tango or even chanson in our approach.

How conscious are you of the fact that you are a band that plays rock, to begin with?

I: Hmm…… Instead of saying that we play rock music, it’s more like rock is the only genre that we can play, for us. But I think that rock music itself is something that has an exceptionally large scope. “This is rock” is not something you can declare over any one form. So, I think that the gesture of saying that “Something like this ain’t rock” isn’t very rock-like anymore, is it? And, you see, that’s why I think that it’s a question of how you can prune that and bring it out. You know, 3 years ago, we released our two-part work ROMANOID, and at that time, we ended up coming in with the image that ＜we’re frauds＞ too. Like, as if…… we’re only pretending to be a rock band.

I, thought that was a joke.

I: No. Because it was an album that made us think that our own contrivance would be brought to the front, that we’re just fakes and frauds. You see, that was subjective. Till now, that stance hasn’t changed either.

Frauds. What does this “fraudulence” relate to?

I: When DER ZIBET came together, we understood that we were somewhat different from the rock bands that took the royal road. Back in the day, for example, there was Chuck Berry and Elvis, then there was Led Zepplin, but I’m a human being who, no matter what, has never been partial towards such popular figures. Compared to that, the awareness of using this rock methodology to perform was stronger. That’s the reason why we’re a sham though. But that trickery is also being treated as one of the appeals of rock. The successive musicians that I liked were those who possessed this, you see.

Taking the backroads instead of the royal road. Not only that, you chose to go underground instead of aboveground. ISSAY-san’s expressions always tends towards that side, doesn’t it?

I: Yes…… Yes, that’s true. I do pantomiming as well, but when I stand on a theatrical stage, I’d first have it pitch dark, then I’d shine a light on it and create a world, you see. I like these kinds of man-made things. Then I’d spend a rather enjoyable night with my friends until morning comes, you know. But when dawn comes back around, I’d see trash rolling around in areas that got lit up, I’d end up seeing things that I don’t need to. I don’t like those sorts of things, you see. Perhaps you could say that bathing in the sun doesn’t suit me.

 

It’s extremely important to break free
Those who say ＜Ah, I’ll stop at this point＞without breaking even once
right from the start won’t be able to express anything

 

Though it is said that bathing yourself in sunlight is good for your health. So you’re saying that you don’t want to be in such a place.

I: …… It’s turned out like that as a result, but, it’s just that, I’ve never aimed to be unhealthy, not even once. Though this time, we have a song like ＜Blue Sky (青空 / Ao Sora)＞, and based on the summers from my memories, the seasonal sense that summer gives me, I definitely do not hate summer. I think I do have a longing for the vitality of summer. However…… I somehow end up feeling desolate, you know, when I see something with far too much vitality. Perhaps you could say that the more lively, the more energetic something is, the more heartrending it is. Also, having me…… sing something like ＜The summer beach is the beest!＞, you don’t want that, do you?

Hahahahaha! On the contrary, I’d want to hear it.

I: Hahahaha. No matter how hard I try, I can’t do that, you know. I’d find myself feeling like I’m lying to myself.

Ah. So, even if you like contrived bands, you can’t lie to yourself.

I: Yeah. The contrivance that I’m into, in other words, is fiction, you see. Don’t you think that fiction projects the most truthful things? That’s what I think. Because fiction has no realistic ties at all, so it’s easy to bring out and convey this truth. Be it on a theatrical stage, or in a pantomime, or on a rock stage, it’s all the same, you see. Fundamentally, I am a human being who inhabits this space after all.

As someone who lives in fiction, what is reality^ to you?

I: …… If you feel that something is real in that moment when you hear or see it, then that is reality to me. No matter what kind of lie it is. For example, let’s just say that I tell you an outrageous lie while were having a conversation like this, right? But if you truly believe it and think ＜Ah, that’s very nice＞, then that has already become a truth. Only in that moment. Isn’t it the same when you dream while you sleep? You seriously feel that it’s reality. Right now, I think you’re probably speaking of reality as something that has the same meaning as＜actuality＞, but even if it’s not actuality, I think that having a ＜sense of reality＞ is enough.

I see. So what is required to bring fiction into reality?

I: …… Performing, and having yourself firmly believe in that world. I suppose that’s it. There’s a song called ＜Paper Moon＞, and above the stage, there’d be a moon made out of paper. But if the audience feels that that is the moon, then it is the moon. How should I put this…… I suppose, everyone goes out to see beautiful lies, you know. Whether it’s a movie, or a play.

Ah. Indeed that is true.

I: Isn’t it true that it’s hard to get to see something that only pierces into your core to make it sting to such an extent in reality? I think that people go out to look for that beautiful lie that properly strikes their hearts, you know. And I think that rock is the same in that sense. If I can have people truly appreciate the important things while living in a beautiful lie, I think that this would constitute a great success for me.

I fully understand now. In other words, neither fiction nor lies have any negative connotations.

I: Ah, I’m putting it in an extremely positive light. It’s positive, and I suppose you could also say that it’s very direct. To me, I feel that these are things that are straightforward.

Is such an awareness something that DER ZIBET possessed right from the start?

I: Ah…… I guess it might’ve been subjective?　But, it’s true that when DER ZIBET came together, we had that conversation about paper moons, and I suppose that awareness came from somewhere. But, you know, like what I said earlier, to me, this is very natural. But while I was with the band, I spoke to a number of people, and it was about 12 years ago when I started to realise that normal people aren’t like this at all (lol). That’s why, I think I only came to realise that I’m expressing myself to people different than myself around the time of the 3rd album’s release though. Ever since then, it’s always been a battle between actuality and the truth of fiction, you know. In terms of which one I should make more concessions for.

So, it’s how you inflate the things that exist in reality, the ordinary things with your imagination to make it look beautiful. I’d go further to say that you express things as a decadentic fiction. I’ve once again felt that grimness in this time’s lyrics too.

I: Hm, well…… Though I dooon’t do that intentionally, you know (lol).

Is that so? Though, I was first blown away by the lyrics in Metro. Like, to think that there’s a person who can describe the subway as a＜steel coffin (鋼鉄の棺桶 / koutetsu no kanoke)＞that ＜writhes from darkness to darkness (闇から闇へとのたうつ / yami kara yami e to notautsu)＞!

I: But I’m just writing exactly what I see and what I feel (smiles). To me, this is something that is real, you see.

What do you think is the reason for your words, that describe exactly what you see and feel, tending towards flavours of darkness and eroticism.

I: I wonder why……… I’ve never thought about it. It’s natural to me, you know. Of course, people do often say it to me. “Why does it turn out like that?”, they’d ask. Though I’d always answer, “I wonder why?”. Probably…… It’s as I said earlier when we spoke of summer, I end up seeing the duality of things. Isn’t it the case that, where there is a front, there will be a back? I feel death when it comes to extremely vivacious things, and when death isn’t near to something, I can’t feel the vitality in it. I think that all things have two-sides that tend to conflict each other, but that isn’t the part that you can see on the surface. Instead, it’s the back part that exists to show that surface. I guess I have this habit of looking at that.

That said, this line from the 3rd song, Mr. Bad Trip, ＜I want to be as I am until my last breath (最期まで俺は俺のままでいたい / saigo made ore wa ore no mama de itai)＞, is rather interesting. This doesn’t have a front or a back, and it feels like the words of ISSAY-san’s physical being.

I: Isn’t it? For me, the scariest thing is becoming someone who isn’t me. No longer understanding myself is what I fear the most. Take, for example, Daniel Keye’s Flowers for Algernon*, I can’t bear that person’s work, you know. Isn’t it a story that is entirely about a person who loses himself?

It’s the same with Billy Milligan**, isn’t it.

I: Exactly. I want to trust only my own perception, and that’s the only thing that I can trust, you see. I’m afraid of losing it. I suppose you can say that this is why I wrote what I consider to be the most horrific thing to me.

Um…… She has already passed away, but my grandmother had dementia. In her final days, she only had memories of her childhood, and she kept talking about Manchuria*** during the war. And yet, she seemed to be having fun in some sense of it.

I: Yeah.

So one might say that she lives in fiction too. Broaching such a topic all of a sudden may be difficult, but how does ISSAY-san feel about this?

I: About your grandmother?　Hm…… There are 2 ways you can look at it after all. One is that you are in the world where this person is living in, so I think that that’s a very blessed thing. Although when I’m the one in such a state and I look at myself from a third-person’s perspective, I’d be scared. So…… This isn’t something I can say much about, but to an extent, if you were to ask whether I’d be happy or not, I might be. But if I were to look down at myself, it’s scary, you know. I can’t really…… put it properly in words though.

No, no, it’s the same for me. It’s just that, from our earlier conversation about ISSAY-san living in fiction and going all out to sink into that world, isn’t this what you’d consider to be fiction as well, with the way you usually look at yourself?

I: That’s true.…… Now that you’ve mentioned it (lol). But I think I’d want to be like that, you know.

Though among musicians, there are many who say that their one true desire is to go blank on stage.

I: Ah, I have that too, you know (lol). I think that it’s a truly wonderful thing too. However, in that moment, I’d be there, watching over myself while knowing that I’m expressing myself, and I think that if I could still control myself, that’d be even more wonderful. Finally…… I’m finally able to think of things like these. That’s what I’d think of myself. Though in the past, I used to think that just blanking out anyway and going into a state of not knowing anything would be best. Now, I think that it’d be wonderful if I could live in a state of looking down at myself from a third-person’s perspective while controlling my own body, you know. Because as an expressionist, that is more correct.

Correct?

I: Because, if it’s not in control, beauty will be compromised. This is with regards to pantomiming, but when a form is taken, there are specific positions for your hands to bring your form to its most beautiful state, but there are times when you put too much thought into it, thus breaking form, you see. In terms of beauty, this is a mistake.

Ah. I see.

I: Of course, for lives (concerts), it’s better to let out your feelings of confusion, so this is the biggest difference between the works though. That’s why it’s alright for me to have some of the forms collapsing, you see. But even so, there’s a limit to everything (lol). Like the lives from our early days, when I watch them now, I often think that I overdid it too.

What you speak of now isn’t narcissism, but about something like moderation and grace, right?

I: Yeah. And, you know, it’s extremely important to break free, so if you’re not someone who has done that once, you can’t stop. And that’s the reason why those who say “Ah, I’ll stop at this point” right from the start won’t be able to express anything. Really. You’ll understand the necessity for it when you look at yourself from an observer’s point of view as you break free and arrive at a state where your form breaks a little. Because you’ll only have the thought of wanting control after you see yourself overdoing things and pushing too far.

Ah…… This, somehow, makes me feel strongly that these are words that only someone who has done this for 30 years can say.

I: Fufufu. Nah, I’d say that it just so happens that I’ve continued on like this for 30 years. Well, I think that I’m lucky. Very much so. Because there are many who can’t keep at it after all. That isn’t just my own feelings, because there are also reasons pertaining to the physical condition, reasons pertaining to band members. And we’ve got a 10-year long hiatus, but I think, the fact that we can play together as DER ZIBET even now is a very happy, very lucky thing, you know.

Does the difficulty of enduring refer to the chance that this band may never happen again?

I: Hm…… That’s already becoming less and less of an issue after our revival though. Well, but things really were awful during the few years before our hiatus. Things were uptight, and I was at loggerheads with HIKARU too (lol). Both of our mindsets were in conflict with the other’s, and the result of that was us being in agreement that we can’t go on anymore.

And 10 years after that, you became active again. The thing that sparked this off was one of your members being in an accident, right?

I: Yeah. Our bassist HAL got into an accident…… That was a really terrible accident, you know. It was so bad that when I first heard about his condition, I thought, “Ah…… he’s going to die”. But even though they said that he’d be bedridden for the rest of his life, he regained consciousness and mobility, didn’t he? Apparently, it was at that point in time when he decided that he wanted to play in a band. So he decided to phone all the people who he wanted to play with to bring them together, and those who gathered ended up being the members of DER ZIBET (lol).

Hahahaha. What a reunion!

I: I suppose he thought that, to him, the members of DER ZIBET were the best, you know. Though in the beginning we didn’t have any intention to get together again, at all. HAL-kun said that he wanted to do it, so he pulled every trick in the book, you know. But as expected…… when we first jammed together, with HIKARU playing the guitar and me singing, I thought, “Ah, it’s DER ZIBET”. Because I clearly understood creating sounds together with these people was all we needed to do to turn into DER ZIBET. The sense that it would be interesting to be in a band with these people now, at this point in time, has returned, you see.

ISSAY-san didn’t stop your own expressions, and you were active with your own solo work too, but is DER ZIBET something different to you after all?

I: Ah…… Well, I wonder.　Right now, it feels like this is my life work to me, you see. The one thing that I’d continue with for the rest of my life is probably this band. After all, when I debuted, it was with this band too, and the thing that I’ve kept at for the longest time is this band as well. There’s definitely love in it after all, in our work. I get the feeling that ultimately, this is something that can’t be done by anyone except for DER ZIBET, you know.

It’s been 30 years now. What do you feel with regards to the length of this time?

I: Well…… Like it didn’t happen^ I suppose. Fufufu. If I were to meet myself from 30 years ago, I’d probably tell him “You’ll still be in DER ZIBET 30 years later”, you know. And to that, I think he’d say, “You’re lying”. Hahahaha!

“Like it didn’t happen”. No matter how you look at it, these words are so typically DER ZIBET.

I: Fuhahahaha. Right?

 

 

Notes:

* Daniel Keye’s Flowers for Algernon is a science fiction short story that won the Hugo Award for Best Short Story in 1960. The story is told through the perspective of Charlie Gordon, the first human test subject that underwent surgery to increase his intelligence by artificial means. Algernon is the laboratory mouse that had successfully undergone the surgery before Charlie.

** Billy Milligan was an American citizen who was the subject of a highly publicized court case in Ohio in the late 1970s. He was arrested for various crimes, and was then subsequently the first person diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. He was also the first to be acquitted of a major crime for this reason, instead spending a decade in mental hospitals.

*** Manchuria was a puppet state of the Empire of Japan in Northeast China and Inner Mongolia from 1932 until 1945. In 1931, the region was seized by Japan following the Mukden Incident and a pro-Japanese government was installed one year later with Puyi, the last Qing emperor, as the nominal regent and later emperor. The ruling government was then dissolved in 1945 after the surrender of Imperial Japan at the end of World War II.

^The actual statement by him was 嘘みたい, literally, “like a lie”. It doesn’t sound quite natural in its literal form, neither did it have the right nuances, so I went with “like it didn’t happen” instead.

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki

 

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[Dec 2015] PHY Vol. 5: ISSAY talks about BUCK-TICK’s Sakurai Atsushi

 

ISSAY
20,000-character interview

Rockin’ on Japan
February 1994

Interview text by Takako Inoue
Photography by Satoshi Matsuo

 

 

There is no guilt, none at all

Divorce, makeup, homosexuality, expulsion, left wing rallies, confinement……
Orphaned soul ISSAY speaks of his traumatic early life and his aloof spirit for the first time

 

 

Der Zibet’s new album “POP MANIA”, which corresponds to the second phase of their evolution, welcomed Okano Hajime as a producer. It is a work that leaves the impression that they’re here to make their marks as they open up to pop. Listening to Der Zibet’s past work cooped up in my room, they have all been rather serious productions, but this album, in comparison, has the glitter, the absurdity, and the merriment of rock packed together in a jumble, making it an unexpectedly contemporary album. Even ISSAY’s vocals come through more distinctly, more dramatically than in their previous works. It is one cool rock album.

However, at the same time, I felt a strong sense of jeopardy when I listened to it. That is because this time, half of the song lyrics were written by external lyricists. Beginning with the lyrics from their single Like a Summer’s Day Typhoon (Natsu no Hi no Taifuun no You ni*), “You trace the edge of your wineglass／So meaningfully, with your manicured nails／Seducing my body／While saying nothing” *, these unfamiliar words that were put together made me wonder, ‘Uh, is ISSAY singing this?’.

To ISSAY, who wanted to become a poet before turning into a rock musician, lyrics are an emotional means of expression. This is not an idea of his, but its instead the form that it naturally took, and it is in such a situation where I felt this strong sense of jeopardy. Though it doesn’t feel like this band shutting themselves away at all, instead, it feels like they’ve decided, “If we’re aggressively doing new things, isn’t it also good for us to become rowdier and go crazy?”. But this direction is somewhat risky. Of course, the album was done up well, and I’m not specifically criticising anyone. It’s not that kind of a specific issue, but it is the state of the Japanese music industry that obligates them, as a product, to appeal to a wider audience that gives me that feeling of risk.

It need not be said that this man, ISSAY, is an exceptionally peculiar artiste who cannot be easily substituted. And it is precisely because of this peculiarity that makes it seem like they are about to be buried by the scene. Der Zibet is in danger!ーーーーーー This time, it happens that I was sparked by issues in the song lyrics to write this, but this is also applicable to the riskiness that I’ve always felt from their history.

Is ISSAY really an eccentric or an oddball who makes others avert their eyes from him? Is he an oddity with a twisted outlook? Is he an alien with a communication barrier? Why don’t the words and voice of this man, who has thrown away all of reality’s trivialities and emanates a free soul, contain any sense of normalcy?

ISSAY said with a heavy tone, “It doesn’t matter what my past was like. Even if I talked about my birth, how I was raised, and all those things that I’ve been burdened with, that has nothing to do with my singing on stage”. The reason why this interview had the go-ahead is that there was a desire to address the scene and the readers.

 

This happened about a week ago, but there was a silly piece of news that caught my eye. It said, “If you take the arrow out of the duck with the arrow (矢鴨**) it’ll just be a regular duck”. This is a topic that has long died down, but for some reason, I felt annoyed upon hearing that cheerful voice. Indeed, it may seem ridiculous to leave it alone with that arrow in it at the pond, and you can’t put it in the zoo either. But that’s none of your business. This is no different from the arrogance of humans who ignored the laws of nature and said, “Save the Japanese crested ibis” instead of letting a species that cannot adapt to reality go extinct. To me, rather than feeling some inexplicable comfort that the arrow was removed, I have more faith in and am more moved by the strength and will to live of that duck which has been flying around and floating around in the water with the arrow still in it.

It is not my intention not to bring attention to the scars of ISSAY’s early life. All I wish to convey is his vitality, that energy of his that makes it impossible for him to resist dashing full speed ahead, and that doing these things do not make him some kind of exotic animal. A declaration of being gay as bright this is probably the first in Japan’s rock scene as well.

 

An extremely old-fashioned and stern household.
It appeared that he said things like “You have to birth a son or I’ll throw it in the river” to my mother

 

ーーWhat is your earliest memory?

…… Around the time when I was still toddling around, there was a fire that broke out somewhere near my home, and the next day, my father took me by the hand and brought me over to have a look but right then, they were taking the burnt corpses away. That was traumatising. I was so scared that I clung to my father, and he looked at me wondering what’s wrong with me, you could say I got startled (laughs). I suppose seeing something like that will startle anyone……… It’s something that I remember. What kind of a formative experience is that? (laughs). There’s also the time when I messed up my mother’s vanity set.

ーーOoh. Have you had a strong sense of femininity since young?

My father is the descendant of an ancient Kyushu family, you see, so he was an extremely obstinate, masculine man. And, when I was conceived, he would say things like “If it’s not a boy, I’ll get rid of it by throwing it into the river” or “I’ll cull it” to my mother, it seems like she had a tough time. That’s why my mother prayed with all her heart that she would give birth to a boy. Personally, there are times when I think that maybe a girl was meant to be born but through those prayers, a boy was born instead (laughs).

ーーYou’ve been anticipated as “The heir!” since before your birth.

Yup. The first-born son is far more cherished than the second son, and that’s something that they say without batting an eyelid.

ーーDid he have the kind of extravagance to put lots of huuuuge carp streamers***?

Yes, exactly (laughs). The carp streamers and all. Pretty much every festival was grand.

 

 

Anyway, I was afraid of men. I absolutely hated men. Especially adult men

 

ーーWhat were you like as a child?

You know, when I was in kindergarten, I played with the Hakata dolls**** in my house.

ーーHakata dolls!?

The Hakata dolls were put in a glass case in the drawing room, and I’d meet their eyes, all the time. So I talked and played with them. Like if I had my own secrets, I’d write them all down in a piece of paper and put it into that case. I’d be putting all sorts of papers in, and lots of it. But somehow the papers would disappear, y’know. I wonder what happened to them.

ーーHahahaha.

Also, the patrolling officer would often come into our home and have tea. So, that person let me hold his gun. I remember it being terribly heavy. Like, I thought, there’s no way anyone can shoot with something so heavy.

ーーHakata dolls and guns…… That’s kind of symbolic. Was elementary school an extension of that?

No, when I entered elementary school, my parents divorced and we moved houses. So, of course my father was of the mind that he would take me in, and my younger brother was handed over to my mother. But I guess, because he’d have custody of me until I graduate from high school, he felt sorry about it and deposited me at my mother’s. And her having to change her name probably evoked pity too, so he did some things with the family register.

ーーOoh. But from a child’s point of view, wasn’t it quite a shock?

Well, I knew that the relationship between my parents wasn’t good. But I didn’t quite understand the divorce.

ーーSo you didn’t feel like, “happiness has suddenly fallen apart!”.

But, you see, that’s because I hated my father. He was violent, the type of person who says “This is what a man should be like!”, and I detest that, so even if he wasn’t around, I wouldn’t think much of it. Even after the divorce, my father would occasionally come by and see me, right? I hated that too. I’d think, “I wish he didn’t come”. Now that I think about it, I think only that strict, exceedingly masculine father of mine would’ve thought that I was cute. But, like him, I’m short-tempered and have violent mood swings. But I cannot forget running away barefooted in the middle of the night with my mother and my younger brother, us three. That’s why, to me, more then feeling pampered by my father, I felt far more afraid, that fear was immense. Anyway, I was afraid of men. I absolutely hated men. Especially adult men.

ーーI see.

That’s why, I think that this might have become part of my character. That part of me that doesn’t really assert myself against my surroundings. ー When I was in my fourth year of elementary school, I ended up getting taken back to my father’s home but, you see, he came home drunk and I suppose looked pitiful, and y’know, he asked, “You. You really want to live with your mother on that side? I won’t get angry so tell me the truth” and when I answered “yes” I got beaten to death (laughs).

ーーNo matter what you said, you would’ve had to weather a hell of a storm.

Yes, that’s right.

ーーSo, were you mild-mannered in elementary school too?

I wasn’t very good at putting myself out there, you see. I had social anxiety and was painfully shy too. But on the surface, I lived a normal life. I was a class monitor and all. I had no sense of responsibility though (laughs). Ah, I was super irregular at that time, the comments on my semester report would be completely different from one semester to the next. If “too quiet” was the written, then in the next semester, “too noisy” would be written. I’d think “Ah, am I gloomy?” and then go “Oh no!”, and after that, I’d become extremely cheerful, and then I’d be considered as too chirpy in the next report (laughs). I have no moderation, none at all.

ーーBut being the class monitor, that seems like the teacher trusts you quite a bit.

At that time, I did well with adults, didn’t I (laughs). I was worldly-wise, quite so. Ah, but there’s something that really pissed me off. In my second year of elementary school, my teacher said “Please write an essay about your father. I promise I won’t show him”. And my impression of my father at that time was that he was always drinking alcohol, then coming to our home to beat us or my mother, and I hated that, so I wrote a single statement, “I wish he didn’t drink alcohol”. After that, it was read out aloud when my father came for the school visitation. My father was insanely angry. I was terribly beaten up. I even thought that he was going to kill me. Since then, I’ve never trusted teachers.

ーーIn your family, were things peaceful when you lived with your mother and younger brother?

Yup. Since the scary father isn’t around either. Well, even though they were divorced, he would occasionally come and fight with my mother again, that was the only time I felt antagonised but……… Other than that, it was great. At home, I’d play with monster figurines with my younger brother, dig holes in the yard.

ーーHoles, as in pitfalls?

Holes. Pure, simple holes (laughs).

ーーHow so?

Let’s see…… The aim was to have a hole so big and deep that I can bury myself in it. But I was small in size and had no strength so I could only dig down to around the height of my knees, and gradually, bit by bit, it began widening out from the sides. When that happened, from my mother’s point of view, it was just right for throwing out the rubbish in and all so she just let it be (laughs). And when I started digging in a different spot, she’d get angry and say “It’s still too soon” (laughs).

ーーDid you do that on your own?

When friends came over to hang out and said “I wish there’s something fun to do”, I’d say “Well, I’ve got something fun” and have them dig with me (laughs). So, you see, I personally thought that it was fun but halfway through everyone would end up going home. But I’d just keep digging until the very end.

ーーNot for the sake of burying something in it?

Nope, I wanted to go into the hole.

ーーAh. I assume you went into closets too then.

I did go in, I did! When it rained I would stay in the closet the entire time. Even when it wasn’t raining, if I got my allowance and bought snacks, I’d take them with me and go straight into the closet. When my younger brother was around, he’d come in too…… I guess that’s how it was.

ーーHahahaha.

I wasn’t good at playing in groups of three or more people. When a lot of people are around, the amount of information going around is too much for me and I’d start to lose track of things. Isn’t it so that the more people there are, the more difficult it is to find the middle ground? I couldn’t do that (laughs).

 

 

Hanging out with gays was enjoyable.
Because it made me feel like this was a place for freedom

 

ーーSo in your fourth year, you were taken back by your father, right?

Well, there was this one time when my father introduced a woman he brought home by saying “This is your mother”, but I didn’t quite understand what he was saying. I didn’t know about remarriage, and even though I thought, “Aah, what a beautiful person”, there was also a feeling of “But I already have a mother……”. But this new mother also cared for me and she was affectionate as well, in fact, she might have been more fond of me than her actual son. Even now, our relationship is still very good too. That’s why, you see, it’s not that I don’t have a place where I can belong to. It’s just that, gradually, I came to dislike family gatherings and I stopped coming out of my room.

ーーI see. Was there some kind of change that occurred when you entered junior high school?

Because I grew to dislike being at home, I joined the Kendo club. See, I had the thought that samurai are cool (laughs). Like Sakamoto Ryoma and the Shinsengumi, weren’t there a lot of cool people during Bakumatsu*****?

ーーLike “youths who care about the world and revolutionise!”?

Yes, exactly. I thought, “How cool!”. So I joined the Kendo club.

ーーBut isn’t the world of “This is what a man should be like!” exactly what the Kendo club is?

I mean, those kinds of superior and subordinate-like relationships aren’t only found in the Kendo club, are they? I guess that’s why I did things as I did with just a simple “Oh, I see”. Even though I thought “how stupid”, this was all because I wanted to do Kendo. There’s no other way except to bear with it, right? Even if I had to go bald I would’ve been completely fine with it too. Even now I can deal with a shaved head.

ーー(Laughs). Even if you say you can.

It’s fine, I don’t care. It’s something that will grow back again anyway.

ーーI see. So, you said that you’d shut yourself away in your room when you were at home.

Yup, I’d, at most, go around on a bicycle. I just kept reading books in my room. Like manga, sci-fi, mystery novels. Since my father completely forbade all forms of entertainment, even manga wasn’t allowed, so I hid and read. The only time I came out of my room was when it was time to eat.

ーーYou never agonised over it, like “why am I like this”?

I never had any forward-looking thoughts at all. It was all just, “It doesn’t matter”, or “Anyway I’ll have a peace of mind as long as I’m in this room. No one will have any complaints”, those kinds of feelings.

ーーYou never worried about the future, or wondered what will happen.

Yup. I didn’t think about that very much. You see, I was being raised as my father’s heir so I always thought that I’d succeed him. Because I thought that it was without a doubt that it would turn out that way, I always did. I guess my parents did well on educating me about that part (laughs)

ーーYou never even said “Why can’t I read manga!” to him, or rebelled or fought back at all.

Yup. If I did that I would’ve definitely gotten into a lot of trouble (laughs)

ーーSo you simply continued through all of that as an honour student by treating it as a force majeure that came about from your surroundings, and without worrying about it or taking it as your problem.

Exactly. So, for high school I went to a prestigious boarding school. An all-boys school. Because I figured that I could get out of the house through this.

ーーAll for the sake of that? (laughs)

But, you know, it was strict. We were split into classes by grades, like everyone of A class would be in one dormitory. So you’d have the whole class in a dorm. And the rooms are shared between two people, your wake up times in the morning are fixed, furthermore, you’d have to be back by 5:30 p.m. for dinner. Then you’d have to stay in your room and study from 7 to 11 p.m.. You’re not allowed to visit other rooms either.

ーーWould patrols come around?

Yup, they would. No one likes that, right? But when I was at home, I didn’t come out from my room either so it’s the same. Though in a double room, it’s more enjoyable since you’d have each other. Approximately once every two weeks you get to go home but I didn’t like that either so I stayed in the dorm the whole time, having fun on my own. And, you see, there were lots of byways in the dorm. You’ll be able to go out in the afternoons on rest days too. At that time, I had two friends who were bad influences, you see, and on Saturdays, in the middle of the night― the patrols don’t really come around much past 11 p.m. so we’d sneak out of the dorm. We’d go to a gay host bar to drink, and we’d just have alcohol then go back (laughs), every week.

ーーOoh. But why? Because it felt comfortable to be there?

Yup, the gays were interesting people. You know, those people, they’d have to hide that they are gay after all, don’t they? That’s because, in society, you can’t really openly say “I’m gay!”, right? But when they go to this bar, they can finally let themselves out, you see. There were subtle shared feelings between fellow discriminated persons too, and those people were very liberated in there. Normally they’d speak with “Well I……”^, and when they get calls from their offices or something, they’d also speak with “Ouh, it’s me!”^ but when that ends, they’d say, “Ah, that was tiring♡” (laughs). It made me think, “Ah, this place is where these people can feel most at ease”. I, too, felt that this was an enjoyable place. Because we were high school students, they wouldn’t get angry with us either, you see, since no one subscribes to common beliefs or generalisations.

ーーWas that because there was interest as well? Or was it a sympathy of not having somewhere to belong to? Or was it because you also had a feeling that perhaps you were gay as well when you were there?

Well, whichever it was. Or rather, there was all of that. At the start I spoke about it out of mere curiosity though, like “Whoa~, this is interesting!”. And when I had nothing to do, there was a park butー That place was famous for being a place where gays cruised for sex, and if I went there to space out, I would definitely be approached by people around five times (laughs), so I hung out with them. If I follow along too much, they’d force for sex and look at me with a scary look in their eyes so I didn’t really go along though.

ーーSo in your high school days, you experienced the nightlife with alcohol, cigarettesー

Yup. So it was also that time when I first slept with a man.

ーーEh? Is that so?

Yup.

ーーCan I pen this?

Sure. Anyway, it’s the truth. Now, if you ask me, I don’t think it makes any difference to my inner self.

ーーOoh. So have you dated men before as well?

Yup. It’s like, I don’t really have any resistance against such things.

ーーSo in your own consciousness, it’s not something that’s particularly special.

Yup. Even with regards to the sexual partー When it comes to sex, I don’t have anything against it either.

ーーI wonder where you picked up that free-spirited way of being.

Though, you know, I don’t really know about that ‘free’ part. It’s more like just a hit-or-miss thing though (laughs)

ーーBut when you went to that host bar for the first time, there was a shared sympathy between victims, like “This is a place where I can be free”, as well, right?

Yup, it might have been that. Well, that’s because I’m a lump of aggrieved feelings, aren’t I (laughs)

ーーRight? And with the added “I’m gay too”, didn’t that just add to the aggrieved feelings even more?

But, you see, I don’t have a single impression that I did anything bad or anything like that. There is no guilt.

ーーYes. But that lack of discomfort, it’s wonderful yet unusual, isn’t it?

But haven’t I liked them before? Males. Now that I think about it, I believe that the thought of “I like that senior” that I had when I was in junior high was definitely love. I admired him. It was a very strong admiration. Be it because he was cool, or because I wanted to become like him. A regular boy wouldn’t think of that as love, would they?

ーーIs it your nature that stands apart after all?

Hmm, it might be that.. But, also because the sex feels good.

ーーAh, really.

But, you see, I don’t really think very deeply about sex. As long as it feels good, its good. Maybe that’s because my physical body is a male’s (laughs). It might be different if I was a woman though. I’ve never been a woman so I don’t know about that though.

ーーI see.

Though I was surprised during my first kiss. But I didn’t like it, so I didn’t do anything more than that. Ah, but my first kiss was with a girl.

ーーAh, no, I’m not asking about your tendencies, it doesn’t matter.

In the first place, I don’t have much feelings about being male or female, that’s definitely where I stand. That’s why I hate the “male” “female” categorisations. You see, to me, gender is not something that has an ideal. That’s why, back then, I think I was even more big-headed with even more radical ideas than I am now. And that’s why, in my mind, I don’t have a gender.

ーーI can really understand that a lot. But I dare say that there aren’t many people who put this in practice, are there?

When I frivolously put on makeup in high school and went walking around, there’d be big brawny guys who would come up to my and say, “Hey fucker! I’m gonna kiss ya!”, like they’re trying to harass me. And when they’d grab onto me like they’re going to kiss me, I’d stay still, stare, and say “Sure, go ahead”. Then they’d stop. Why didn’t they do it, if they wanted to it would be fine anyway. So, you see, I don’t really think much of these things.

ーーYou can’t protect yourself, can you?

See, that’s the question, what are you protecting? That, to me, is up to you to imagine, up to you to say what you think, up to you to express. It’s all up to you.

 

 

I went for gym class with foundation on, eyebrows drawn, and nails painted.
It seems like they thought that I had a mental problem (laughs)

 

ーーI see. So earlier on, you said that even now, that part of your inner self is gay, right? What is that?

I don’t know. I can’t really explain it very well. For example, my love for Tatsuya (partner in Hamlet Machine, ISSAY’s other project. Originally vocalist of ALLNUDE) is somewhat similar to homosexuality. However I don’t have the thought of wanting to sleep with Tatsuya, though there might be something close to that. Prior to this, we went to watch a movie and we even discussed things like “if you get AIDS I’ll take care of you”^^ (laughs). Though I think people would normally consider this as being close friends.

ーーTo ISSAY, be it admiration, a sense of security, or adoration, it’s all the same love, isn’t it?

Yup. I can’t differentiate that well. And I don’t have the slightest intention to differentiate if it is love or friendship. What an excuse! I’ll say this clearly. There’s a difference in relation to whether I want to have sex with them or not. But that too doesn’t have anything to do with love or friendship, does it? Not particularly!

ーーSo, you’re saying that there has always been this homosexuality in you.

I don’t know, I haven’t had sex with men recently (laughs). But at the same time, there might be more feelings of guilt when having sex with a woman. Maybe women are scary. …… That’s why I like men, for sure. Like that movie I mentioned earlier, at the start, the gays were swimming in the nude, having fun and being all energetic. But when things steadily grew to be beyond help, one of the leads became worn out and was in ruins from AIDS and he said, “I am in pain. I don’t want to live”. My tears just rolled down (laughs). Those are a man’s words, aren’t they? If it was a woman, I think she’d say “Live for me”.

ーーI see. So even the gay men who you met back then, they weren’t the “adult men” who you hated, but were instead kind and strong people.

You see, I suppose they made me feel safe. They were somehow appropriately effeminate people who got lonely easily, and everyone had exceptionally adorable characteristics too. Like dropping their chopsticks in such an odd manner that its hilarious and things like that. It’s somewhat like being free from worldliness, you see. I really loved it.

ーーUntil then, have you ever thought that your looks weren’t masculine?

You see, I’ve always thought of myself as a regular guy. Sometime before my junior high graduation period, I fought with a friend and he called me something like “queer bastard!” but I had no idea what it meant at all. Then when I was in high school, a stranger said it to me, and I realised that I appear different to others no matter what, so I thought “Well, I guess applying makeup will be better anyway” (laughs). I figured that if I did that, the creeps won’t speak to me.

ーーThat was sudden too, right?

It’s easy to see that I’m different from others, right? I think that this concept itself is liberating too. Of course, when I walk on the streets with makeup on, I’d get heckled by loud voices though. It’s no big deal. I thought those guys were stupid. Like, “why the hell do these stupid people keep barging in and stomping all over other people’s business?” (laughs)

ーーI get the feeling that you’ve put yourself on the line against the world, against adults.

Yup, probably. These days, there’s the opinion that “putting on some kind of makeup makes you cooler”, but back then, the culture of men applying makeup did not exist. That’s because this was slightly before Julie^^^ started wearing makeup. And that’s why, even though my teachers looked at me and thought “How strange”, no one could say it (laughs). I applied foundation, put on eyeliner, drew my brows, applied mascara, and also put on lipstick and painted my nails, so I think that should be obvious enough, but they didn’t say anything to me. Like, after gym class, the teacher apparently told my closest friend “That guy sure is strange”. Then, my friend said, “Yup, he’s strange” and that was the end of it. It seems like they thought that I had a mental issue (laughs). Like they can’t directly tell me that I’m weird or it’ll hurt my feelings or something.

ーー(Laughs) It’s like some unfathomable world unfolded in that cramped dormitory……

There was something remarkable there.

 

 

To say that having friends is a lonely thing, that’s truly lonely!

 

ーーIt’s like the kind of foreign gymnasium that appears in a Shojo manga………… So, was it around this time that you started listening to music?

Yup, it’s in that period. Until then, I would buy and listen to film music like “Melody”^^^^ though. Back then, KISS and Aerosmith were popular but it was shrill and noisy to me, I couldn’t deal with it . You see, I couldn’t stand those kinds of sounds. Then, I think it was David Bowie’s “Station to Station” that I heardー That doesn’t sound like rock at all, does it? I thought, “Ah, so rock has such music too” and it was after that that I could listen with a peace of mind.

ーーWhen you first listened to rock, how did it influence you?

I became comfortable with enjoying myself alone in my room. Like, it doesn’t really matter to me whether or not I’m with anyone. But this isn’t because someone told me this or anything. I just grew to become like this after listening to that. Well even now, thinking about it, I still feel that music is an amazing force after all. …… It was also around that time when I started writing poetry too.

ーーWhat kind of poetry did you write?

The poetry that I wrote back then, well, most of it was uplifting. I loved Tanikawa Shuntaro^^^^^. But it’s really no big deal.

ーーI see.

But because that was all I did, I started to stand out in the dormitory. So, then, there was a little something……… It’s kind of pathetic so I don’t really want to talk about it, but it’s not that big a deal though. There was something that happened in the dormitory that got everyone overly excited, and one of them got caught by the teachers and spilled the beans. So normally, the ironclad rule is that things just stop there, but that guy, he probably thought he was being cute or something. He said “That senior forced me to go”, and he gave them my name. I don’t remember whether I invited him to go or not. Then, I was next to be called, so I said, “If that’s what he said, then that’s fine”. ‘That’, as in, expulsion. But, you see, after investigations, they found that half the dormitory was involved. And there was no way they’d expel more than half the dormitory, would they? So, I was made out to be the mastermind, like they decided that it would be enough to punish just this one guy, me. So either expulsion or a school transfer. I was asked to choose between the two. But, you see, I didn’t want to live in such a place any more, did I? And it just so happened that at that time, I was having problems with my family again, soー I was also becoming mentally unstable myself, you see, like “Well, that’s just perfect”. I didn’t want to be at home, neither did I want to be in school any more. I thought, fine, whatever, I’ll give up, and so I did. Instead of the bastard who did this, it was I who got bitterly hurt.

ーーAnd that’s because it was not only the adults but even your friend who sabotaged you, right.

Yup. If the person who was caught wasn’t a friend or anything, if he was just some guy who decided to tag along on his own, then it would be fine since he never was someone I trusted since the start. But everyone agreed to this. That’s the most shocking part, isn’t it? I thought, “Well, fine! I don’t want to be around these kinds anymore”. My father kept going on about it though. He’d say, “You may think that you were protecting your friends, but it was instead your friends who cast you away”. Yes, yes, that’s right. And he’d also say, “How irresponsible, stop doing those ridiculous things”. He said those words until the day he died.

ーーIs that with regards to your way of life?

Yup. He’d tell me to stop it because I looked like a fool to him. But I know. Because that person would despair over this, saying things like “What a corrupt world”, a man who attempted suicide in his youth (laughs)

ーーThat’s a fitting image, isn’t it (laughs).

But by surviving, that person would have thrown that away, right? Surely? That’s why, at that time, I kept thinking, “Ah, these people aren’t what you call friends!”. Friends are people who will never do that which should not be done to their companions. Those who do such things aren’t friends. Only friends will have a long list of things that they know they should never do to their fellow friends. And, you see, that’s why, to say that having friends is a lonely thing, that’s truly lonely!

ーーSo you were able to see this even more clearly for the first time after this incident happened.

More like, I became even more aware of something that I’ve always felt from the beginning. That’s why, you see, listening to rock, talking to gaysー The more such empathetic incidents occur, the more I grew to feel like there must be some kind of mistake for my being in my family, in this school, all of it. Because I started wondering to myself, “Why am I here?”, despite that I enjoy reading these kinds of books and writing these kinds of poetry, you know? I got the feeling that if I didn’t do what I did, I would’ve broken.

ーーSo, you chose to drop out of your own accord.

My parents were extremely angry. Since it was an embarrassment too. And because of my father’s reputation, they said that it wouldn’t be good if I stayed in Shizuoka, so I went to Tokyo. Though it was more like I was discretely kicked out. So I delivered newspapers in Yotsuya (a neighbourhood in Shinjuku, Tokyo).

ーーYou’re kidding me!?

It’s true. I delivered newspapers while wearing makeup (laughs). The Self-Defence Forces were there too, weren’t they? So in the mornings or something, the entrance guards would be standing there, you see, and it seemed cold, so when I’d give it to them like, “Here, take this”, they’d be all grateful, like “Thank you. When I’m in the country……”, etcetera, etcetera (laughs)

ーーWere you wearing makeup at that time too?

Yup. But it was no longer that heavy though, usually. Though, life in Yotsuya was terrible. The only space I had was a room the size of two and a half tatami mats with a bed in it. But I had a tiny radio cassette player anyway. I listened to tapes using that.

ーーBut it was better for your mental state.

Yup. You see, in the morning I’d deliver newspapers, then after that I can take a nap or something, then wake up in the evening and go out delivering again. After that I can do whatever I want too. I can choose to drink alcohol, or smoke, or read a book. I can listen to music too. And at that time, there was a guy among my acquaintances who was part of a left-wing group, and I went to meetings and stuff by invitations from that guy though. It just so happens that at that time, it was being held at places like Sanrizuka. But when I asked about it, it seemed to me that these guys weren’t all that big a deal.

ーーDid you take part in demonstrations too?

Nope, before that, my father caught word of it and he brought me back again, I had quite a hard time (laughs)

ーーOh no~. Not again……

It’s true that no matter where I go, I’m a failure though, aren’t I (laughs). So after I was brought back, I was in confinement. Meaning that I didn’t take a single step out of my room, neither did I step out of the house. Though occasionally, when there’s no one around, I’d go to the beach or something.

ーーSince then, you began writing all sorts of things in your room, right?

For three months, all I did was read books……… write in my notebook. Be it poetry or prose. I simply kept writing out every single thing in my mind, like, I don’t like this, or I like that, and what not. You know, as I did that, a lot of things gradually became clear to me, a lot of things came to light. Maybe other people who can confidently say what they are started out this way too.

ーーWas that the original form of the worldview that you sing of now?

Yup. I felt that I can’t live if I don’t protect this, so I decided that I wanted to live like how I felt. I think it was at that time when the original form of ‘Matsu Uta’ came about.

 

 

I’ve always been looking for a place where my soul can exist as it is,
with no relation to age, or sex, or birthplace

 

ーーI see. So how did your confinement come to an end?

After about three months passed, I got the feeling that my mental state might be in trouble. When we’re talking like this, I can answer you with “Yes”, right? Or I could say “No” or “I don’t think so”. I got into a state where there was none of that at all. I wouldn’t make a single sound, and I would just keep writing. I would fill up ten to twenty full pages of words in a day. As I did that, the characters would gradually, steadily, grow larger and larger. Coherence and context was lost too. I thought, “This is bad”. With all of that……… It’s somewhat like spewing out curses all over the place (laughs). I thought, “This doesn’t seem good……”. I knew that I wasn’t making sense any more and I figured, “This is bad!”. I wanted to talk to people in my age group. So, that turned into a huge fight though. My father told me to repeat to him myself that I wanted to go to high school, but it was obvious, and he could see it, so I would never say it. So it became a battle of endurance, to see who would give in first, and then we got into a fight, I thought he was going to kill me (laughs)

ーーThat’s no laughing matter.

So I went for one more year of school. At that time, I barely spoke to anyone in my class because I no longer put my trust in friends, you see. Hey, you know those committee chairman types, there are lots of those, aren’t there? Those that say things like, “If there’s anything you need help with, do ask me”. I would say to them, “Shut up, you idiot”. It’s not because I’ve become a cynic, but it’s because these guys who approach you all smiles are the first ones to turn around and stab you in the back. I’d say things like “Shut up, I’ll ask if I need anything so beat it” (laughs) Something like that.

ーーWas it during those days when you became the student council president?

Yup, after that.

ーーWhy did you become the student council president there? It’s strange (laughs).

Vice president. Well, you see…… It was decided that if any problems arose this time around, I’d be expelled. So I figured, if I’m at least in that kind of a position then I’d be fine, regardless. Hahahaha. Because that was the last chance that I had. Since that time, I wanted to express myself like, I don’t know which, but either a writer or a poet. And, time is needed for that, isn’t it? So for the sake of a perfect moratorium, I thought “If I did this, then it should be difficult for me to get expelled” (laughs)

ーーSo, was this long before you thought of making rock music?

Sometime before I graduated from high school, I was writing poetry when I began to think that I’m not getting anywhere doing something like this. So, at that time, I was listening to T-REX when I became convinced that “Ah, this might be something that I can do”. Then I gathered almost all my musician friends. Right before we went into the studio, I suddenly hummed a tune and said, “This is the melody that I want to sing”, then the guitarist briefly played it. Chords were added and memorised. And so we did an original song the first time we went into the studio. It made me feel like I’m a such genius.

ーーWithout having ever made music before?

Yup. Even now, that’s how I write songs. I come up with them by humming (laughs)ー Well, I have zero analytical abilities, don’t I, and that turned out to be fortunate (laughs). But we debuted before graduating from university so that was unusually early.

ーーYou’ve never thought of playing instruments?

I’ve never even considered it. I thought the one who used his voice was the greatest!

ーーHahahahaha. So when you went to university, you began to properly start performing lives.

Though I didn’t even know that live houses were a thing. I told them that I heard that such a thing existed, and the bassist went looking for it, then he came back and said, “Anyway, let’s give it a go”. So, you know, until then, I’ve always been nothing more than an eccentric, right? I wasn’t popular with the girls either.

ーーWhat, really?

But isn’t that how it is?! With using makeup, talking about incomprehensible things on my own, being highly conscious of only myself, having no trust in anyone at all. “He’s creepy, that guy”, that’s what people used to say of me. But when I performed at lives, other people started to say that I was cool, and I was soo happy!　I thought, as long as I’m here, I’m cool. Like, “Ah, I’ve finally found it”.

ーー……… That took a long while, didn’t it?

Yup. Hahahahaha. It was there where I first came to understand the magic of being able to be myself no matter what I sing. Regardless of my age, of whether I’m male or female, of my originating from Shizuoka, of whether I’m a student or not. I’ve been looking for a place like this that has none of those societal burdens. I didn’t want to be male or female. I didn’t want to be called a student, neither did I want to be called a working adult. It doesn’t matter if you’re proud of having lived a long life, neither does it matter if you’re proud of being young, age has nothing to do with this, does it? This is how I’ve always felt, you see.

ーーYou hit your head against this and that, here and there, all to find a place where you can live as your soul is. And it was then that you found a place where you can openly live as yourself.

Yup. But in the beginning, I was scared though. I’d get drunk, gulping down alcohol, and every time we were going to have a live, I’d definitely empty a pocket bottle of whisky, that’s how scared I was. Even now, when a live is about to start, I’d still get scared. But, you see, that’s the only place where my existence is excuseable. It just happens that this is the only place where the soul in this physical body can be itself. This one and only existence unlike any other.ー I think that’s definitely what I am, ever since I was a child. I’m not going through life as the son of that father. I started using the name ISSAY ever since I started writing poetry in high school butー I think that I changed the moment I gave myself the name ISSAY. I turned in to an existence of nothing, of zero.

 

 

 

Notes:

* Translated title and lyrics from This is NOT Greatest Site

** This references an incident in 1993 when a Northern Pintail duck was found at Tokyo’s Shakujii River with a crossbow arrow stuck in it. Read more here (Japanese only, unfortunately)

*** Carp streamers are typically put up to celebrate Children’s Day in Japan, which was traditionally an exclusively male celebration. This, however, no longer applies in present day.

**** Hakata dolls are traditional Japanese clay dolls that originated from Fukuoka. Read more here

***** Bakumatsu refers to the end of the Edo period when the Shinsengumi existed.

^ In this portion, it should be noted that there is reference to the different forms of “I” that can be found in the Japanese language. 俺 (ore), which has a strong masculine implication, was used in these sentences. Read more about the different nuances here

^^ It might be interesting to note the literal translation of this statement.
アイズになったら俺がオムツ換えてやるよ = If you get AIDS I’ll change your diaper for you

^^^ Julie as in Sawada Kenji, who was nicknamed Julie for his love of Julie Andrews. It was in the 1970s when he started wearing makeup. He was also known as “Japan’s David Bowie”. Read more about him here

^^^^ 小さな恋のメロディ is the Japanese title of the British movie Melody, also known as S.W.A.L.K.

^^^^^ Tanikawa Shuntaro is a famous Japanese poet who is highly regarded in Japan. Read more about him here

 

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki
Scans: morgianasama on LJ

ISSAY’s World

Fool’s mate #140
June 1993

Interview text by Yumi ishikawa
Photography by Yohsuke Komatsu

 

 

Welcome To The World of Lizard Pleasures

ISSAY’s sense of pleasure and inner universe seen in a variety of things like earrings, brooches, masks, Gitanes, Jim Morrison, and more.

 

 

◆Lizard accessories (piercings, cufflinks, necklace, brooch, ring, lighter, socks, etc.)

ISSAY(I): When I wrote the song Psycho Lizard, I realised that I like lizards. With no relation to Jim Morrison¹ at all, lizards are sexy and they’ve got the power to even survive in the desert. And that’s why to me, they’re a symbol of vitality and a sex symbol too. So, there are strange lizards depending on the type that they are, right? So, you know, in the desert, there are lizards that walk with their right front leg and left hind leg up. They’ve got that sort of comical side to them too. And, they’re easily hated (smiles), these creatures. There was a time when agnès b² released a lizard series, right? So, it was thanks to agnès that I could amass my collection easily.

 

◆Protection stones

I: So, this, well, one day, my friend gave me an agate, you see, and while I held on to it, during that period, these things were trendy, weren’t they? I had no idea, but somehow, a number of people were giving me stones, so I ended up collecting a variety of them and I believe you can’t treat them badly, so I always put them in my left inner pocket (near the heart). But the agate I received, I was told that it was for liver health, and it’s in my pocket every day, though (smiles). It would be great if [the stone] would shoulder this for me like Dorian Gray³, but I think I’d hate it if [the stone] shows how it changes over time (smiles). I don’t know what [this one] is called, but it appears that gold-coloured stones are tied to monetary fortunes, if I end up breaking it (smiles) I’ll never be rich.

I heard that amethysts are supposed to promote mental stability, but I suppose I must have looked very unstable to the one who gave it to me (smiles). The tiger’s eye? This one’s to ward off bad things. The turquoise, well, I hate airplanes, right, and there were a number of times during our tours when I’ve had no choice but to fly and when I made a huge fuss over it, like, “No way, no way,” they said, “This is a protective charm, so [take it],” [and gave this to me].

But I really, really hate flying. I hate the fact that there’s nothing under my feet. I just can’t deal with things where you can expect yourself to fall, you know? I can’t deal with elevators in tall buildings too. And somehow I’d get anemic on Flying Pirates⁴ (smiles). I love crystals, but I hate that if I put them in this leather pouch and bring them out, they’d hit against each other and get scratched, you know? That’s why I don’t carry them around.

 

◆Leather

I: Leather goods are sexy, aren’t they? The belt I’m wearing now is a Jim Morrison design that I’ve been looking for since a while ago and a friend found it for me, you see. So, I asked how much it was, and found out that it was a price that was far beyond what I could afford. Then, just as I was thinking, “How dare you shitty, greedy, extortionist!”, 20 something people came together to buy it for my birthday last year. That’s why I decided that I’m definitely going to take good care of this one, and I’ve already declared that I’d get leather pants specially made to wear with this, so there’s no detaching this. This is already as good as my patron saint. Furthermore, this is something that tens of people bought for me, so it weighs on my hips (smiles). Maybe I should write everyone’s names on the back of the belt (smiles).

 

◆Mask

I: Now, there’s a person who’s in the pantomime field who’s making [masks] like these, and they’re someone who has even held a solo exhibition. I don’t know what they were thinking but a long time ago, that person gave [them] to me for some reason. Well, I did like masks and I did use them on stage during Der Zibet’s early days too. Masks are, well, used to easily convey another personality. The one I’m holding in my hand (in the picture) is the third generation. The one that’s taken with [the] Jim Morrison (poster) is the second generation. The very first I intended to display it at home, but the moment I got it, I knew I had no reason to not use it on stage. Recently, SEISHIRO of Strawberry Fields⁵ said he wanted to use a mask and he asked if I could lend one to him, so I let him take the first generation mask.

 

◆Pierrot

I: I thought of bringing pierrot-themed items along too, but [I didn’t] because there were just too many. Pierrots, you know, they’ve got that sadness, and that mischief⁶? I love it. Usually, they’d be the ones making funny faces at the audience, right? They’d act like buffoons and joke around, and once the audience laughs, it becomes the audience who are the fools; I really love that sense about them. Plus, there’s something romantic⁷ about it too. I’ve always liked pierrots since I was a child, you see.

 

◆Pantomime

I: I started pantomiming even earlier than Der Zibet. I think it was around the same time as when I started [my first] rock band. We just happened to bump into each other at a certain place, you know, me and Sensei (Mochizuki Akira / 望月章). When he asked me then whether I’d perform in a mime show, I said I’ve never done anything like miming, and he said I’ll only have you do what you can, so just sat [on stage] and remained there.

In terms of special training… there are basic exercises for fundamental motor movement. Miming is movement while thinking of each joint in the body as separate parts, right? So, we’d move our head, neck, chest, stomach, hips in all directions, dropping down and twisting; we’d do all of that. Also, standing straight was something that I couldn’t do that at first for half a year. I think standing straight is the most difficult thing to do. It’s probably the most basic thing to stand up straight on stage and let your voice travel straight ahead, but after living long enough, you’d develop certain walking habits and vocal quirks, right? We have to revert all that to being “brand new” once.

And, erasing your presence. To appear out of thin air. I still can’t do that. Because when I decide to make my presence disappear, the intention to disappear will be there. You have to strongly believe in what you want to show people, otherwise it won’t work out. If [what I want to show is ] wall, you’d know that it’s a wall if I hit (moves his palm up and down in front of himself) like this, right? But as to what kind of wall it is… Whether it’s concrete or glass, if I don’t know which it is, I won’t be able to show that to the audience.

Many of my current Sensei’s pantomimes have a storyline, but rather than following the story as a whole, it’s more important in his works that the audience can feel what they see in each moment. I think even among Japan’s pantomimers, he’s considered to be one-of-a-kind. Some people say that what he does is closer to butoh⁸ or ballet. Maybe he’s closer to Maurice Béjart⁹ or something. In the past, I’ve once invited Mochizuki Sensei to perform at one of my live shows with Morioka Ken¹⁰ on keyboards. I asked him to perform a scene called Berlin from a part of one of Sensei’s works.

I think Sensei’s left a very big influence on me. Because I think he’s probably the one person who influenced me the most. That’s why if I performed in one of his works, I’d write poems or something too. Whenever I perform in his productions, each time I’d feel, “Ahh, I’m alive.” I wonder how many times I’ve lived now.

 

◆Jim Morrison fabric poster

I: So this, when I went to Nagoya while on tour, I was going for drinks with the event organiser and he said that he knew a fun place so he took me there, and it turned out that the establishment used to be something like a rock cafe. While drinking and commenting, “What a nice place,” I looked around and noticed Jim Morrison stuck to the ceiling. After I went crazy over it, I was told that this place was going to be permanently shuttered next week. So, [when we were leaving,] I went out and the event organiser said, “Wait a moment,” and [when he came back,] he got [the poster] for me. That’s why I said I’ll definitely cherish this, and I hung it up diagonally in front, in the area I’d see when I open the door to my home.

The Doors, well, when I was a high school student, they had their revival hit in Apocalypse Now¹¹. I bought it after I heard it on the radio. So, I’m the sort of person who doesn’t get special feelings for artists and all that. I’d like the music, the voice, the lyrics. I’d simply like it without feeling attached [to the person or band], you know? But some years before that, The Doors released a video for Live at the Hollywood Bowl, right? And watching it, that was the first time that I found myself thinking, “This is amazing.” And since then…

I like the Door’s early days, up until their third album, though. But I love all the songs on their first album. The music they produced up until then felt like the very midst of adolescence, that’s how it felt to me. Maybe it never really had anything to do with adolescence or anything, but that’s just what I understood from the lyrics that he wrote, you see. I suppose The End, too, relates to bitterness in that sense or something. And even though [their music] is all low and rumbly, it’s so crystal clear, isn’t it? I liked that sense of clarity. And even though he’s so often considered synonymous to rock music itself, I’ve never once thought of him as a rocker. Because he really sings as if he’s reciting a poem. And his brilliance with how he would never be hitting out at people no matter how much he shouted! Maybe you could say I’m a worshipper¹², but I like him too as a vocalist myself. He’s one of my top three favourite musicians. 1st and 2nd are Marc Bolan¹³ and Morrison. Following them are David Bowie¹⁴ and Iggy Pop¹⁵ and Lou Reed¹⁶ fighting for 3rd.

 

◆Gitanes

I: I forced myself to smoke it when I was in high school because I thought the packaging was cool. And once I got used to it, all other cigarettes smelt bad to me so I couldn’t smoke anything else, you see. These are the cigarettes that the French working class smoke, aren;t they? But that’s why I call them the highlight of France, though (smiles). But, you know, Gitanes Light is unacceptable. I will never recognise those as Gitanes (smiles).

 

◆Art

I: I don’t know much about it but I like Chagall¹⁷. [His works] are very close to the dream world I see. And there are also periods when I alternate between liking Klimt¹⁸ and Egon Schiele¹⁹, too.

 

◆Poets

I: From Japan, what I liked was Tanikawa Shuntaro-san’s²⁰ early works. And once a whole, I read stuff like Ranpo²¹, and Prévert²². I came to love poems rather early on. You know, I wanted to become a poet when I was in high school. In terms of novels, I liked Mishima Yukio²³ and Akae Baku²⁴. Akae’s ability to gather information when he writes about one thing is simply astounding, isn’t it? Because of that, his works have a fragrance to them, don’t they? I hated Dazai²⁵ (smiles). I hate those kinds of works which give affirmation to the mentally weak (smiles).

 

 

 

Notes:

¹ Jim Morrison was an American singer, songwriter and poet, who served as the lead vocalist of the rock band The Doors. With regards to the “lizard” being related to Jim Morrison, he gave himself numerous titles, King Bee, Crawling King Snake, Little Red Rooster, etc. But none other was more elevated and revered by Morrison than ‘the Lizard King’ of which he dedicated an entire performance piece titled Celebration of the Lizard King which included spoken (poetry) and sung lyrics, story-telling and musical sections (Goldstein, 1968) in which Morrison proclaimed himself as ‘the Lizard King’.

² A French brand by the French designer of the same name. agnès b. started designing menswear in 1981 after observing men appropriate clothes designed for women. She opened her first international store on Prince Street in New York’s SoHo district in 1983.

³ In reference to The Picture of Dorian Gray, a Gothic and philosophical novel by Oscar Wilde, first published complete in the July 1890 issue of Lippincott’s Monthly Magazine. The Picture of Dorian Gray is the only novel written by Wilde where the main character, Dorian Gray is the subject of a full-length portrait in oil by Basil Hallward, an artist impressed and infatuated by Dorian’s beauty. When he comes to realise that his beauty will fade, Dorian expresses the desire to sell his soul, to ensure that the picture, rather than he, will age and fade. The wish is granted, and Dorian pursues a libertine life of varied amoral experiences while staying young and beautiful; all the while, his portrait ages and records every sin.

⁴ The pirate ship ride at theme parks.

⁵ A Japanese rock band which was formed in 1989 and was active until 1993. Members were DIZZY (ex. D’ERLANGER) on vocals, LEZYNA (ex. JUSTY-NASTY) on guitar, SEISHIRO on bass, and SHU-KEN on drums. SEISHIRO would later go on to play for ROUAGE, while SHU-KEN would join FiX, tezya’s band.
(tezya’s first band was with Sugizo and Shinya of Luna Sea.)

⁶ I thought it’s interesting that the word 悪さ (warusa, literally, “badness”) which he used here has the secondary interpretation of “inferiority”.

⁷ I am inclined to believe that he is referring to romanticism here; the literary, artistic, and philosophical movement originating in the 18th century which was characterized by its emphasis on emotion and individualism as well as glorification of all the past and nature, preferring the medieval rather than the classical.

⁸ Butoh is a form of Japanese dance theatre that encompasses a diverse range of activities, techniques and motivations for dance, performance, or movement. Following World War II, butoh arose in 1959 through collaborations between its two key founders Hijikata Tatsumi and Ohno Kazuo. Today, butoh encompasses a range of styles, from the grotesque to the austere, and from the erotic to the comic. It is frequently regarded as surreal and androgynous, and focuses on primal expressions of the human condition rather than physical beauty.

⁹ Maurice Béjart was a French-born dancer, choreographer, and opera director known for combining classic ballet and modern dance with jazz, acrobatics, and musique concrète.

¹⁰ Ken Morioka was a Japanese musician, keyboardist, composer, and music producer. In addition to being a member of influential synthpop group Soft Ballet, he worked with numerous other musicians such as Kaya, Buck-Tick, and ZIZ. He was also in the bands minus(-) and Ka.f.ka.

¹¹ Apocalypse Now is a 1979 American epic war film directed, produced and co-written by Francis Ford Coppola. It’s Japanese title is 地獄の黙示録 (Jigoku no Mokushiroku). The film follows a river journey from South Vietnam into Cambodia undertaken by Captain Benjamin L. Willard (Sheen), who is on a secret mission to assassinate Colonel Kurtz (Brando), a renegade Army Special Forces officer accused of murder and who is presumed insane.
The movie opens with The End, a song by The Doors.

¹² The phrase he used here was 巫女さん状態 (miko-san joutai), literally, “shrine maiden state”. I couldn’t find reference to this phrase so the “worshipper” translation is basically an inference for what the phrase possibly means.

¹³ Marc Bolan was an English singer, songwriter, musician, record producer, and poet. He was the lead singer of the band T. Rex and was one of the pioneers of the glam rock movement of the 1970s.

¹⁴ David Bowie was an English singer-songwriter and actor. Known for dramatic musical transformations, including his character Ziggy Stardust, he was a leading figure in the music industry and is regarded as one of the most influential musicians of the 20th century.

¹⁵ Iggy Pop is an American singer, songwriter, musician, and record producer. Designated the “Godfather of Punk”, he was the vocalist and lyricist of influential proto-punk band the Stooges, who were formed in 1967 and have disbanded and reunited multiple times since.

¹⁶ Lou Reed was an American musician, singer, songwriter and poet. He was the guitarist, singer and principal songwriter for the rock band the Velvet Underground and had a solo career that spanned five decades.

¹⁷ Marc Chagall was a Russian-French artist of Belarusian Jewish origin. An early modernist, he was associated with several major artistic styles and created works in a wide range of artistic formats, including painting, drawings, book illustrations, stained glass, stage sets, ceramic tapestries and fine art prints.

¹⁸ Gustav Klimt was an Austrian symbolist painter and one of the most prominent members of the Vienna Secession movement. Klimt is noted for his paintings, murals, sketches, and other objet d’art. Klimt’s primary subject was the female body, and his works are marked by a frank eroticism.

¹⁹ Egon Schiele was an Austrian painter. A protégé of Gustav Klimt, Schiele was a major figurative painter of the early 20th century. His work is noted for its intensity and its raw sexuality, and the many self-portraits the artist produced, including nude self-portraits.

²⁰ Tanikawa Shuntaro is a Japanese poet and translator. He is one of the most widely read and highly regarded of living Japanese poets, both in Japan and abroad, and a frequent subject of speculations regarding the Nobel Prize in Literature.

²¹ Tarō Hirai, better known by the pseudonym Edogawa Ranpo, also romanized as Edogawa Rampo, was a Japanese author and critic who played a major role in the development of Japanese mystery fiction. Many of his novels involve the detective hero Kogoro Akechi, who in later books was the leader of a group of boy detectives known as the Boy Detectives Club (少年探偵団 / Shounen Tantei Dan).

²² Jacques Prévert was a French poet who composed ballads of social hope and sentimental love; he also ranked among the foremost of screenwriters, especially during the 1930s and ’40s. His poems became and remain popular in the French-speaking world, particularly in schools. He was also a screenwriter and his best-regarded films, including Les Enfants du Paradis, formed part of the poetic realist movement.

²³ Mishima Yukio was a Japanese author, poet, playwright, actor, model, film director, nationalist, and founder of the Tatenokai. Mishima is considered one of the most important Japanese authors of the 20th century. Mishima’s political activities were controversial, and he remains a controversial figure in modern Japan. Ideologically, Mishima was a right-winger who protected the traditional culture and spirit of Japan.

²⁴ Baku Akae was a Japanese novelist. He was born in Shimonoseki, Yamaguchi. His novel Oidipusu no yaiba (オイディプスの刃 / Oedipus’ Sword) won the 1st Kadokawa Novel Award in 1974. In 1984, his novels Kaikyou (海峡 / Straits) and Yakumo ga Koroshita (八雲が殺した / Yakumo Kills) won the Izumi Kyōka Prize for Literature.

²⁵ Osamu Dazai was a Japanese author who is considered one of the foremost fiction writers of 20th-century Japan. A number of his most popular works, such as The Setting Sun and No Longer Human, are considered modern-day classics in Japan.

 

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki
Scans: morgianasama on LJ

Future Skull

Fool’s mate #139
May 1993

Interview text by Reiko Arakawa
Photography by Yohsuke Komatsu

 

 

Ruins and pleasures that you can’t help but think of

TRASH LAND; the album where loud beats intertwine with the documentary of happenings of a fictional city.
They who broke the mould have returned with this long-awaited new release.
This is the solo interview with their frontman, ISSAY.

 

If there’s something I want to do, nothing can stop me

 

―― To start, please give us a brief rundown of what led to your contracting with BMG Victor.

ISSAY (I): Two years ago, in the latter half of that particular year, our contract with Seven Gods Records (a label under Columbia) expired on its own and since then we were in a sort of limbo where our managing office had been decided but we hadn’t decided on a record company yet. So, while in that state we simply continued performing our lives throughout. Then, around September of last year, I think, talks with BMG Victor got serious, and that led to the current contract, basically.

―― During that period of limbo, did you emotionally feel something akin to impatience as one would expect in such a situation?

I: Mm～m, I didn’t. At all. Though, I don’t really know (smiles). Because I felt that we’d definitely make a decision in the end. I wonder how the other members felt, though? I guess there more or less would be some members who felt pressed about it, but I don’t think anyone felt it to the extent of becoming exceptionally anxious, you know? Because, after all, the only thing we could do was to focus on doing what we can and what we needed to do at that point in time.

―― You mean, to continue on at your own pace.

I: Mhm, because I’ve always thought that we’d likely make a decision before long. Although, it did take longer than I expected (smiles). Ah, well, but we also did talk about how it would be fine even if we released music through an indie [label]. Like, we’d probably be able to continue as Der Zibet anyway. Though, we did talk about how it would be a shame if the band broke up or if it stopped existing, among us members. We did feel that even if it ever comes to a situation where our band can’t release music, the state of Japan’s music industry probably won’t decay, so we were quite at ease, but when we started to sense the shadow of a doubt, a decision was more or less suddenly made (smiles).

―― You performed at Extasy Summit* two years ago, didn’t you?    I thought that this all started from there, and I’ve also heard rumours that you were going to sign with Extasy.

I: You know, even I was surprised when I heard that rumour from a reporter. Because such a thing had never been sounded out in the slightest bit, and other record company names have been raised before, so, why did that rumour even come about?    All that despite the fact that we, ourselves, have yet to make a decision too (smiles), y’know?

―― I think the origin of those rumours came about because there were occasions when ISSAY-san participated in their** personal events, but that you appeared quite a bit, didn’t you?

I: Is that so?    That could be it.

―― Did you decide to actively participate or anything like that?

I: There was no such conscious intention at all. It’s simply that I got invited, and if I liked the content that was going to be performed, then I’ll go, that’s all.

―― How do you perceive between yours and the bands’ activities?

I: No relation at all. Because I think it’s fine as long as I enjoy it.

―― Then, what about the unit, Hamlet Machine?

I: That’s a hobby, you see. Because I’m just doing it out of interest. I’m the type who would feel suffocated if I’m not performing at lives, so, even if it’s an event, if its direction interests me, I’ll go. And if there’s nothing like that either, then I’d form a band on my own, or I’d keep jumping into other people’s bands (smiles). Because I can’t do without singing on stage, you know?

―― By the way, I saw you performing the day before yesterday (20 Feb) at Power Station*** and I’m curious about ISSAY-san’s hairstyle changes.

I: Hair, you know, it just grows longer when you leave it alone, doesn’t it?    It just gets me wondering, what is it that keeps it in a certain shape, you know? So, there really isn’t much of a profound meaning behind this. It’s just that I got tired of it, you know. Now I’m just letting it be (smiles).

―― I think you change [your image] quite a lot and one of those aspects is your stage outfits, but what are your thoughts regarding that?

I: Since it’s an extension of my everyday wear, what I wore on stage the day before yesterday is exactly what I’d normally wear.

―― That’s not something exclusive to the stage?

I: Yep, that’s been the way it is for the past few years.

―― Huh?    Then, you go up on stage just like that?

I: Well, I don’t want to stay sweaty and catch a cold so I’ll bring a change of clothes, though (smiles). In general, if you see me on stage and get the idea that I look flashy, then during that period, I’d look flashy on regular days too. Previously, when I had extensions attached, it wasn’t possible to remove them, so I had no choice but to stick with that image, right? And during that time, I wore a purple coat on stage so I’d normally wear a purple coat too. Because you see, if I don’t do that, then nothing would match, right (smiles)? It just wouldn’t feel right, you know. But the person is the one who chooses the clothes, so I think that it should bring out all of the wearer. I can’t pull the brakes when I think, “Ah, I want to do it like this.” I think that’s one of my answers. I like rock because bringing that out is an acceptable form of expression, you know? I think I like it because it’s something where the person’s appearance is just as important as the person’s music.

―― Is there not much difference between the version of you on stage and the usual you?

I: Isn’t it the same?    It’s just that when I’m on stage, I’m in a “shrine maiden state”, you see. There’s nothing for me to do except to wait for the song to descend on me, so it feels like my body is possessed?    That much is different, I guess. Though, I suppose that’s quite a big difference (smiles).

 

There’s a strong sense that we wanted this album to be something that aims outwards

 

―― Now, I’d like to ask you about your new album, “TRASH LAND”. How long ago did you start preparing for it?

I: Since around July, we had been putting together the demo tape which was to be used for the album. There were 10 plus songs, but once we arrived at the recording stage, we felt that those wouldn’t be interesting direction-wise, so in late November, we started composing again and then started recording in December.

―― Why were all of the credits for the songs written as Der Zibet instead of individual names?

I: There are also a lot of songs which each individual brought, but our band progressively composes through sessions, so there are times when it happens that this part may come from this person, but this other part comes from that person. The melody would change during our composition sessions, and in the end, it gets troublesome [to accurately credit the individuals] so we just leave it as Der Zibet.

―― Around how many songs did you end up with?

I: There were sooo many. How many were there?    It’s always like this, but I think there were 40～60 songs?   When we produce one album. Because there are also songs that are made up of only one phrase. Then we’d put together the phrases of two songs and so on, you know. We have quite a lot that was brought to the table as raw materials. Then there are also those songs that we compose as a band when we go into the studio of sessions, right? So, including that, it adds up to quite a considerable amount, doesn’t it?

―― So, what criteria do you go by to choose which song to go with?

I: Feeling^. It’s the band’s bigger sense of wanting to go in a particular direction at that point in time, you know.

―― Are the lyrics only written after you listen to the music?

I: Rather than writing them after listening, it’s more like I always have a stock of lyrics, you know. And even then, rather than a stock [of lyrics] which have taken shape, it’s more like a stock of fragments. Because I’m the type who would write things down on paper whenever I come up with something. Then, I would collate this stock in a notebook, and as I refer to it, I’d keep thinking and often, I’d go with putting bits from it together [to form song lyrics]. When there isn’t enough, I’d just come up with more there and then, anyway.

―― You always write down whatever comes to mind?

I: That’s right. When I feel like it. Though rather than song lyrics, it’s more like a stock of lyric phrases, you know?

―― You’ve always written song lyrics like this?

I: That’s right.

―― So, does that mean that when you’re writing song lyrics, you’ve never gotten stuck or come up with them last minute?

I: Nope, it’s happened. Numerous times. Because when the content of my word stock doesn’t fit the content of the song lyrics that I want to write at that moment, I have no choice but to redo it, right? But this time, it was easy. I had a vague, general image of it since the period of “Shishunki” Ⅰ and Ⅱ^^. So, there were a lot of words which I let lie for about a year or a year and a half.

―― To leave them for this album?

I: I spoke to the band members this time around, but rather than talking about the content of the lyrics, the conclusion which I arrived at when I spoke with HIKARU was that we wanted to do something straightforward. First and foremost, we felt that we wanted to produce a minimalist, rock and roll sort of album. That, and also, we had been doing live performances throughout that time, right?    We had this rhythm which we got through that period of time, so we also spoke about how we wanted to create something which had the potential for us to be aggressive during live performances. But rather than spending time griping about it, I brought (the lyrics) as materials because it would be faster to just suggest, “This is good, right?”

―― It’s quite a heavy sound, isn’t it?    It felt that way to me at your lives too, though.

I: I guess you can also say it’s an album that is the result of the trend of the type of songs that we chose to perform at our lives this past one year.

―― In the sense that the rhythm which you have grasped through your lives comes through in this album?

I: That’s right. And, to us, it’s also because our previous release, “Shishunki”, had a part of it which was overly introverted after all. I guess this [album] is also a response to that. At that point in time, we had no choice but to do that… We couldn’t progress to the next step, but I think we drew the line at that, you know? That’s why I think that we created something which burst with unnecessary things. In contrast, do we want to do something which aims outwards this time?    I guess there’s a strong sense that we hope people will listen to it anyway because we’re such a great band.

―― What do you mean by “aim outwards”?

I: I think that wanting it to aim outwards simply means that we want this album to sell. This might be interpreted as something very tasteless [to say], but basically, we want it to sell. That was a very strong intention that we had. But it’s not that we are hoping that doing this will commercialise us or something. It’s just that we wanted to release something that is the result of us putting our artist power on full blast. For some reason, the number of people who came to our lives had been steadily increasing during this past one year while we were left dangling in the air. That’s why we had confidence that the way we’re doing our lives is definitely the right way.

 

The decadence of this era

 

―― This phrase, “TRASH LAND”, also appears as the album title, but what is it?

I: An unfinished city?    It’s a city at the turn of the millennium that I have in my head, but “TRASH LAND”, this imaginary city wasn’t something that I had in mind right from the start. Rather, it was the result of my initial concept of cities. While composing a few songs and writing a few lyrics, I had a moment of, “Oh, I see,” and came to a realisation on my own. [It’s the realisation] that I’m writing songs about disjointed scenes happening in the city. And that I wanted something like a concept which puts it all together into one whole. There, you see, is where the name “TRASH LAND” came from.

―― Considering that TRASH creates the image of garbage or junk, it brings to mind something similar to ruins, though.

I: Because when it comes to cities, what I imagine is futuristic ruins. That is the kind of image that has been going around in my head ever since I started writing the lyrics.

―― When you say ruins of the future, capturing that alone isn’t a very positive perspective, is it?

I: You see, I think of cities themselves as things that have yet to be completed. Even now, I feel that way. Since they’re incomplete, I can’t imagine what they’re like in their completed forms either, but I think that humans have always created all sorts of things in the direction of desire or pleasure. But if we went beyond that by a certain amount, we’d go crazy, right?    I think that’s why cities always turn to ruin. It’s easy to look at that and lament, but I wanted to acknowledge it this time. Like, I guess that’s just the way humans are.

―― You mean, [to acknowledge] the parts that are imperfect or warped?

I: I want to include those all together and acknowledge them too. Among all of that, I also really want to acknowledge my floundering self.

―― Is that perspective something that you’ve always had consistently?

I: Nope, I think it’s stronger recently.

―― Why so?

I: I wonder (smiles). I don’t know the answer to that. About why I became like this. I believe that humans are creatures that cannot stop chasing after pleasure. We move in accordance with that principle, so getting told that we’re not allowed to do so would make us lose our humanity; that’s what I think, without a doubt. Because we don’t need restricted freedom. I guess that’s why, in these past two years, I’ve been getting the sense of, “If that’s the case, what if just once, I went all the way to the limit?”. “THE END OF PLEASURE” and the like are songs which sort of touch on that, but I think it’s a declaration of resolve. Because I just want to see my destination. For example, war will never disappear, but although it’s easy to lament, “Why do humans go to war?”, what’s even simpler, to me, is the truth that humans just enjoy killing other people, don’t they? But if you don’t recognise that, you definitely won’t be able to control yourself, right? Because only those who say, “I don’t do that,” are the ones who kill. I thought that was something that I wanted to recognise myself.

―― Is that something you also want your listeners to acknowledge too?

I: I don’t want to do such pushy things. Saying, “So this is my stance!”. I think that it will be put through a filter by my creation of this fictitious city called “TRASH LAND”.

―― I feel like the public image of the band Der Zibet, the decadent atmosphere was again intensified by “Shishunki”, but was it your intention to wipe that away with this album?

I: Nope. I guess since “decadence” was something that has been said of us since our debut, no matter what we say now, it wouldn’t make a difference… So, because the trend thus far can be rounded up with the word “decadence”, I think that I’d probably be dabbling (in “decadence”) forever. Though, it’s not that I wanted to be defined as such. That’s why this album, too, could possibly turn out to be the decadence of this era.

―― I got the feeling that [this album] had a stronger sense of objectivity than “Shishunki”, though.

I: I believe there’s a lot of that. “Shishunki” is a work where I was floundering and kept going further and further inwards into myself, but for “TRASH LAND”, I feel that it’s about things that happen while normally walking through the city. About the people I saw, or what I felt. Because that’s what I feel we presented in this album. I think it really exudes the idea of the person who sang in “Shishunki” thinking, “What’ll happen if I go outside?”. In addition to that, I think that a variety of personalities emerge with each part of this fictitious “TRASH LAND” that gets created. I could feel myself opening up, like a part within myself that I wasn’t aware of or something that I wouldn’t normally write on my own.

―― Did the way you put out song lyrics in itself change too?

I: This started changing since Ⅱ of “Shishunki”, but I didn’t want to think too deeply about it. I felt quite liberated. This might’ve been my most relaxed experience so far. Since the premise was a fictitious city, no matter what comes of it, it wouldn’t be strange, would it? As I’m a person who doesn’t really go outside, to begin with, and I’m the type of person who likes staying still in my room, I’d daydream about all sorts of things on my own and entertain myself. So, I’d write lyrics, right, and between writing about realistic things and words which can only be fantasy, both are of the same level to me, you see. I think that is probably what people have been telling me is difficult to understand. There was a period when I thought of doing something about it. There was also a period when I pursued reality and tried different methods of writing, but this time, since we’re saying that it’s a fictitious city, anything is possible, so it was really easy. Because I could put out both the tangible things and what my imagination came up with together on the same level.

―― Lastly, please say something to readers who are being exposed to Der Zibet for the first time through this interview.

I: I think, thus far, Der Zibet has always produced new works on a timely basis. And I think this one is really timely as well, and to me, it’s a work that is being presented for this era. I hope that you will listen to it. Also, you don’t really have to bother yourself with the difficult things,  so just let yourself get immersed in the flood of this sound. I think you’ll definitely find something that catches hold of you in it. When you do find it, I hope that you will cherish it. Also, we’ll be going on our tour based off this album starting late April, so please do come. If you come once and it doesn’t interest you, you can come and watch us a second time too (smiles).

 

 

Notes:

* Extasy Summit was an event hosted by YOSHIKI’s Extasy Records which was meant to promote visual-kei and the bands that performed there. ISSAY took part in the 1991 edition, performing Lou Reed’s Satellite of Love with YOSHIKI on piano.
Watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9Ns1ax9AAU

** Subject was not specified here.

*** Likely referring to Nissin Power Station in Shinjuku, Tokyo.

^ It was written as “カン” rather than “感”.

^^ Shishunki Ⅰ and Ⅱ (思春期 Ⅰ – Upper Side – / 思春期 Ⅱ – Downer Side -) are Der Zibet’s 7th and 8th studio albums which were respectively released in July and October of 1991.

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki
Scans: morgianasama on LJ