The Essence of
Beautiful Music

～eternally beautiful music～

Sakurai Atsushi ✕ Imai Hisashi
BUCK-TICK

Showa 45-nen Onna
November 2022

Interview: Takahashi Eriko
Photography: Komatsu Yosuke (ODD JOB)
Hair/makeup: Tanizaki Takayuki／Yamaji Chihiro (Fats Berry)
Stylist: Shimizu Ken’ichi
Outfits: kiryuyrik ✆03-5728-4048 | LAD MUSICIAN SHINJUKU ✆03-6457-7957 | AUI NITE ✆050-1564-2462

It wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say that the “Beautiful Music” special feature is a theme that was made for BUCK-TICK. In this issue, we bring a long, wholehearted interview with Sakurai Atsushi and Imai Hisashi that gives us a look behind what inspires the band’s consistently beautiful visuals and their absolute worldview which comes second to none as they celebrate the 35th anniversary of their major debut.

 

Major Debut 35 Years

It’s been 35 years since the band first debuted with a major label. In that time, BUCK-TICK has remained at the forefront of their peers without a single change in band members or a member departure. Furthermore, their range of musical styles is so broad that they cannot be so easily described as a mere “rock band”.

At present, they have released 40 singles and 22 albums with major labels, all of which have achieved chart topping sales and records. Listening to the large number of songs they have produced is enough to engulf you in their immersive world while introducing you to all kinds of genres. In many ways, there is no other like them——

1st major-release single
「JUST ONE MORE KISS」
Released 26 October 1988

They had already released two albums prior to this but their first single came from the album, TABOO. This song might very well be the song that made  BUCK-TICK known to the world when it was used as the commercial song for the CD radio-cassette player called CDian. It’s a song with a nuance of transience in it’s catchy tune.

First chart entry at no. 1
『TABOO』
Released 18 January 1989

The band’s 3rd album which was their first charting release, and also their first album to reach number one. The production of this album saw BUCK-TICK traveling overseas to record and work with a non-Japanese producer in the UK for the first time. It turned out to be an album which leaves a dark impression that leans strongly towards the new wave genre. Just as titled, the album TABOO had a number of songs that contained controversial content which were, however, tastefully presented.

 

 

Upon hearing the words “beautiful music”, BUCK-TICK will be the first rock band that comes to the minds of the women who were born in the 70s… At least, that’s what I think. Their image is undoubtedly beautiful, but even their music, their live performance style, everything about them is so beautiful that no other band even comes close. The subculture known as Visual-Kei grew to prominence in the 90s, but they still exist in a distinctly different sphere from it.

In other words, there was no BUCK-TICK before BUCK-TICK came to be, and there is no BUCK-TICK that came after BUCK-TICK’s formation. Even now, there are few bands who can boast a decades-long career,  but there is almost no band who can say that they have not experienced a single member change or departure in the 35 years since they made their major debut in 1987. That alone is enough to make the band one-of-a-kind.

Among the members are singer Sakurai Atsushi and guitarist Imai Hisashi who are the faces of the band and the driving forces behind their concepts. First, we asked these two about the aesthetics they value and the considerations they keep in mind when creating the BUCK-TICK lens.

I don’t think along the lines of “I’ll keep this in mind”. Or rather, I think I would prefer not to constrain myself. That’s why, even with music,  if I think that what I came up with is going to be cool, then what I’d do is keep digging deeper and work on it until it takes shape. But although that’s my thought process when I’m creating, in the end, I’d still find myself with something that is “still the BUCK-TICK sound after all”. This reason alone is why I feel that “being unconstrained” is also a personal motivation for me

— Imai

I come up with my own lyrics so rather than a focus on beauty, it’s actually more that I cannot stand it if refinement is lacking in any area (lol). That’s why I’d pay a little more attention to that when I’m composing. I’d be glad if others also felt that what I created was “beautiful”, but that’s something that is decided upon by each audience’s respective sensibilities as they listen and watch. And I think that’s okay too, because people are free to feel any way they want, right?

— Sakurai

I was surprised when I heard what Sakurai-san said. That’s right, he mentioned “refinement”! That’s what is found in Sakurai-san’s lyrics. While there certainly exists venom within them too, there is always “refinement” to be found, so we can’t help but sense its beauty alongside its venom.

I’m glad you feel that way. We often say this in reference to pretty flowers, but this “refinement” is also hidden in the shadows of the venom that is sprinkled all around; something that we can catch faint glimpses at times. I think that much is good enough.

— Sakurai

Adding on, it is not only beautiful but, like what Imai said earlier about “being unconstrained”,  there are also many challenging areas in BUCK-TICK’s music. In fact, they present a different variety of musical styles with every album they release. It’s a process of scrapping and building where they break down their image with their own hands and then reconstruct a new face again. Their conviction towards keep moving on without stopping is truly gloriously beautiful.

The moment I find a melody I want to try, I’d want to start composing for us to play it ourselves. As result, the band’s musical style had a debut-era flair, and part-way took on a groovy vibe and turned a kind of dancey, and we’ve dabbled in electronic music, techno and even genres that lean towards ambient sounds too. I guess that’s because of “the unsettled feeling of not doing something” (lol). But if we were to become a band that specialises in ambient music when we make ambient music, or industrial music if we’re making industrial music, that doesn’t feel quite right to me. That said, I don’t think I’d quite like it if we were to become a band that has everything like some kind of family restaurant¹ (lol). So I think it’s good as long as BUCK-TICK’s colours show up well no matter what musical style we’re doing.

— Imai

Whatever the genre, BUCK-TICK’s colours are undoubtedly present. That is exactly what the five members of the band have cultivated in their almost 40 years together.

It’s probably obvious, but the way the five of us play our instruments and make music is what makes BUCK-TICK’s colours. And of course, I think Sakurai-san’s voice and style of singing is a big part of that. Because a voice is something only that one person owns, right? It’s me singing with my voice at the sample stage, but once we go into the recording studio and change it to Sakurai-san’s singing, the song really changes completely. I’d feel that it now exudes the BUCK-TICK vibes.

— Imai

 

Having an awareness of “performing” when on stage

Sakurai’s voice full of depth and mystery is truly one-of-a-kind. These days, singers whose voices become indistinguishable when you listen to them just a little can be found here and there, but Sakurai is special. His voice leaves such a strong impression that you can’t help but turn your attention to him the moment you hear him. To maintain that voice, Sakurai himself pays particular attention to a number of things.

I become very nervous about the condition of my throat before a concert or recording session. Recording sessions and concerts are respectively different too, but after a concert, I’ll be tired and I’ll avoid speaking and eating spicy food. Even so, I’d still drink though (lol). Because I’ll get stressed out if I quit (lol).

— Sakurai

Why he became so cautious is because of the mistakes he made in his youth.

I couldn’t even fully utilise my voice when I was young, and I didn’t consider pacing myself either. Because of that, I destroyed by voice during a tour when we had three consecutive days of livehouse performances. That made me reflect on myself. I realised I can’t only think of myself because it’s an insult to the audience who took the time and effort to come and see us. I became rather anxious after that. When you hear a professional vocalist or a professional stage actor speak, you can immediately tell that they take care of their voices, so that’s something that I felt I should learn from them. The idea that “it doesn’t matter since we’re rockers” isn’t quite right to me.

— Sakurai

Sakurai’s silhouette on stage is also exceedingly beautiful. This is easy to grasp when you watch their most recent concert video release, Misemono-goya ga Kureta kara -SHOW AFTER DARK- in Nippon Budokan. The brilliance of his posturing and gestures is so captivating it lays hold on your heart. How he grew to become so meticulous in “putting on a show” was answered in this section of the column, where he talks about the influence of his admired and respected industry seniors.

Of course, the thing I cherish the most is singing, but there are many other elements apart from music and singing that makes a concert. There’s lighting and the stage sets, stage transitions and all that which are crucial in putting a concert together, so we take all these different things into consideration when we put on a show. And in all of that, I especially am the person who performs as the characters who feature in the songs’ narratives. That’s something I’ve come to keep in mind.

— Sakurai

That’s right. The world that BUCK-TICK creates on stage is not of this world. Because of how it’s neither closely relatable nor similar to daily life, it mesmerises the audience and immerses them in it. I would think that this isn’t anything like “empathising”. However, the beauty of these stories make our hearts flutter and kindle emotions from the depths our hearts. Perhaps this, too, is another power that entertainment possesses.

When we were young, we let the staff take charge of the stage. But gradually, the desire that asks, “How does the audience perceive us? How do we want them to perceive us?” grew. So bit by bit, we began to talk with staff who work the stage. For example, when I want the spotlight to shine over my head at this point in time, or when we want more smoke for a particular song. And after we started using videos too, depending on the song, we’d be making requests like, “Please make a video like this.” Or, “Please use the video as lighting.” In recent years, we’ve grown able to materialise the worlds that we want to present to our audience. But I’m just saying things (lol), so it feels like people are making things for me.

— Sakurai

When it comes to the stage, we basically use what our frontman Sakurai-san comes up with as a foundation. Then the rest of us will see what other ideas we have with regards to it, and that’s more or less how we’re doing it now in recent years.     After all, I think that the one with the ideas should propose them first anyway, and when we have meetings, Sakurai-san would a whole bunch of things like videos and photo collections, illustrated books and all those things too. So it’s like we’re expanding on the idea from there.

— Imai

In the end, nothing beats performing with an audience right in front of you

For a time, the chances of getting to watch a concert in person fell drastically because of the COVID-19 pandemic. BUCK-TICK, too, was affected. The aforementioned concert at Nippon Budokan was their one and only concert with a live audience in 2021. Live streamed concerts are certainly convenient. But without getting to feel the heat and the atmosphere in the hall, it is definitely not enough for those of our era who grew up going to live concerts in person. When you feel at a live concert what you can’t get from a CD, it will naturally bring tears to your eyes. Because it’s these experiences that enrich our lives. And to the artists, as well, concerts are undoubtedly a special space and time when they get to meet their fans in person.

We were also unable to stage concerts throughout that time, but last year, we finally got to do our show at Budokan. When I came face to face with our audience after such a long time, that feeling of “Ahh, this is as nice as I remembered,” came over me. We did a bunch of trial and error with streaming and what we could do with it, but in the end, nothing beats performing with an audience right in front of you. I really felt in my bones that this really was the best of all.

— Imai

Entertainment was said to be non-essential and as a result of that trend, entertainment disappeared entirely for a time. But when that happened, we realised that it was actually the opposite; entertainment enriches our lives and it is something we cannot live without.

We kicked off our fanclub & mobile membership-exclusive concert tour the other day, and it’s already been three years since we did the last one. For three years we couldn’t perform in livehouses. Even now, the audience has to keep their masks on and we can only see their  eyes, but even so, I could sense very strongly that they were really looking forward to this. Because there were also audience members who cried. Even though the situation is  uncompromising, seeing that makes me feel that it’s a good thing that we’re doing this.

— Sakurai

When a band has been around for as long as BUCK-TICK has, “We’ll be able to spot teenaged audience members and sometimes much older folk too” — Sakurai. Not two, but three generations of a family. It’s rare that we ever find a rock band who has been loved for such a long time, but there is no question that this is because they bring us a world which comes second to none, which only they can create. 

After this, they will prepare for their national tour for CATALOGUE THE BEST 35th anniv., and in addition, they also have in the works something that “puts what I’m feeling now into song” — Sakurai. To the women of the 70s who continue to derive joy from BUCK-TICK’s music, here’s a message from them to close things off.

Anyway, being able to enjoy yourself every day, I think that’s all that matters. Don’t need to try too hard. I think it’s enough to use just half of your whole effort.

— Imai

Gloomy news is everywhere right now, but I think it’d be good if you can find just one thing that you like, or one thing that makes you feel at ease despite it all. I hope that by doing that, you’ll be able to brighten up your life and enjoy it to its fullest.

— Sakurai

 

Sakurai’s Roots

Conscious down to his fingertips by the teachings of his seniors in aesthetics

The roots of Sakurai’s “aesthetics” all come from artists with their own unique perspectives. “In terms of foreign artists, it’s David Bowie. Japanese, it’s ISSAY-san from Der Zibet, DEAD END’s MORRIE-san too possesses a very strong sense of aesthetic too, I think. Among them, I’ve received instruction from ISSAY-san who also does pantomime. Ever since then, I became interested in the art of “putting on a show” and have grown conscious [of how I present myself] down to my fingertips.

Imai’s Roots

Incorporating fashion, hairstyles in the 80s when the macabre was popular

Unbound by stereotypes, Imai’s roots are wide and varied. “YMO and RC Succession, The Stalin, of course, BOØWY too, but generally, 80s punk and new wave and techno. I started out with those types of Japanese music before moving towards Western music. I wasn’t only influenced by the music, but also by their fashion and hairstyles, makeup too. The macabre was relatively popular in the 80s, and I thought that was interesting so I incorporated that too

 

 

 

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki
Images: Yoshiyuki

35／60
Interview with Yagami Toll

ROCK AND READ
September 2022

Interview/Text ◎ Okubo Yuka

In Russian

 

I never thought I’d be making music with them for 35 years, much less imagine that I’d still be drumming into my 60s. If I were a working adult I’d already be retiring from the workforce (lol).

BUCK-TICK, who had their major debut in 1987 will be celebrating their 35th anniversary this year on 21st September.

And Yagami Toll, the big brother who was half-forced, half-dragged into the band by Higuchi Yutaka, his biological younger brother, will be celebrating his 60th birthday this year on 19th August.

Stories from BUCK-TICK’s 35 years together and Yagami Toll’s 60 years of life like how he joined the band, what he thinks of his fellow bandmates, the 2 times he wanted to quit, the pros of the drums coming last in the recording process, his current perspective of the instrument, and even about his solo project Blue Sky are all squeezed into this 12,000-character summary of an interview.

 

Yagami Toll

BUCK-TICK

profile & information

Born on 19 August 1962. Blood type A. Drummer of BUCK-TICK which was formed in 1985. Other members of the band are Sakurai Atsushi on vocals, Imai Hisashi on guitar, Hoshino Hidehiko on guitar, and Higuchi Yutaka on bass. They will be releasing both their 35th anniversary special best-of concept album CATALOGUE THE BEST 35th anniv. and the Blu-ray & DVD of Misemono-goya ga Kurete Kara〜SHOW AFTER DARK〜 in Nippon Budokan on the same day, 21st September. They will be performing at Yokohama Arena on Friday, the 23rd and Saturday, the 24th of September at their BUCK-TICK 2022 “THE PARADE”～35th anniversary～ concert. Additionally, they will also be celebrating Yagami Toll’s 60th birthday on Friday, 19th August with the show Yagami Toll～60th Birthday Live～IT’S A NOW ! 2022 at CLUB CITTA’ KAWASAKI.

buck-tick.com

 

―― Since this year marks the 35th anniversary of BUCK-TICK’s major debut and Yagami-san will be celebrating your 60th birthday this year too, let’s have a look back at the journey so far. Yagami-san was the last person to join BUCK-TICK and is also the eldest, so I wonder if there’s some part of you that sees the band and your band mates from an outside perspective.

Toll (T): That’s true. Because I was in a different band, and I’ve been watching over them since the days of Hinan GO-GO (lol).

―― The band before what eventually became BUCK-TICK, right. What kind of impression did you have of Hinan GO-GO?

T: Imai (Hisashi) stripped the colour from his hair with hydrogen peroxide or something so his hair had always been brown since high school, so I thought he was kind of different. Basically they came across as quiet and reserved people to me. I think I got to know Imai when he was in his third year of high school. I suppose it was around that time when they formed the band. The lead guitarist of the competition band that I was in was one grade Acchan (Sakurai Atsushi) and Imai’s senior. At Fujioka High. That person taught Imai and Hide (Hoshino Hidehiko) how to play the guitar, and the bassist of that same band taught Yuta (Higuchi Yutaka) bass guitar while I taught Acchan the drums. We were in the countryside, so we practised in my home. We still got complaints though (lol). And I think there were times when Hinan GO-GO practised at my place too.

―― While all that was going on, Yagami-san got forcefully dragged into joining BUCK-TICK. What was that actually like?

T: I didn’t like that (lol). Because I liked Gunma. My competition band split up in October of 1985, and about a month after that, Yuta said to me, “We changed our member lineup and we have no drummer so join us.” I told him, “I’m all burnt out and I’m not joking so no thanks.” I turned him down 5 or 6 times over the phone. But then Yuta travelled back to Gunma from Tokyo and started packing my things without asking me. So it felt like there wasn’t anything I could do about it so I’ll just help them out anyway. Even though I was living in a huge house back home with my parents, he suddenly took me to an apartment in Asagayakita that didn’t even have a bathroom and I was all, “What the hell is this, give me a break.” (Lol). After we had our first rehearsal, I said I’ll help them for 3 years and if there’s no reaction whatsoever, it could be a deal to debut as an indie band or just anything, if there’s nothing, I’m going back to Gunma. That was the limit that I decided for myself and that’s what I told them. In the end, after about a year and a half, we ended up getting offers from major labels to sign with them.

―― Would you have quit music altogether if you didn’t get the calls from Yuta-san?

T: Even if I continued, I would maybe just play with amateur bands? Because there aren’t many drummers around, are there? That’s why if someone asked me to help, I’d probably do it. I was originally a rebar worker in the first place so I was thinking of going back to that.

―― It sounds like you never even imagined what BUCK-TICK’s future could be at the time.

T: More than that, we were a bunch of people who had only started playing these instruments for 2-3 years. That’s why it’s actually amazing, isn’t it? That we managed to make our debut at the time. We were criticised for how bad we were at music when we debuted, but that’s of course, isn’t it (lol). They said my drumming was just about decent, but that’s also of course. It’s just that the band was aware of our own level and I believe that’s tied to our improvement in skill, you know?

BUCK-TICK isn’t a band that was already perfect at debut;
we’re a band who debuted and then subsequently made steady progress since.

―― This is a famous story, but it’s been said that not involving other musicians in your recordings was one of BUCK-TICK’s conditions for signing with a major label.

T: Correct. Those were the days of the band boom and people who did that were earning big bucks. But when we thought about it logically, that’s as good as strangling ourselves with our own hands. Even if we sound good on CD, anyone who comes to watch us live would end up going, “Huh?” But if a bunch of amateurs work on the recording, the CD would sound bad too so there would be no gap in expectations there. Because it’s exactly what you heard on CD in a way (lol).

―― And because you’ve always presented yourselves as you are all this time……

T: It’s like a live documentary to our fans, isn’t it? We’re actually evolving. BUCK-TICK isn’t a band that was already perfect at debut; we’re a band who debuted and then subsequently made steady progress since. That is sort of what makes us special. Thanks to everyone who patiently watched over us and supported us (lol).

―― When you transitioned from being an indies band to being signed with a major label, did anything change? Perhaps, musically or other conscious decisions?

T: Rather what we changed, I think the more significant difference was that professional engineers were now there for us to work and record properly with. That was something we could enjoy. Also, another thing I remember very well was after we made the decision to debut with Victor, all of us were brought to Victor Studio for a tour. There was a recording session going on for THE ROCK BAND, formerly ANARCHY, and since we belonged to the same production department, they let us watch them work. To us, we’re a generation who grew up listening to ANARCHY and when we actually got to see how they recorded their music, it somehow felt more like an after-school club activity. I think at the time, it’s been about seven years since they first made their debut and they were probably old friends too. Seeing those casual exchanges between them, I was like, “So it’s okay to be like this!” (lol). I do wonder if we were somehow influenced by seeing these people we looked up to work together in such a friendly manner back then.

―― In the four years since then, I believe you had some pretty tough days with recording work and tours and interviews day after day. And during that time, going to London to record your ⁎TABOO album was an experience which left quite an impact on Yagami-san’s sound design work, right?

T: The thing I remember the most about our recording in London was how the food just didn’t taste good at all. I was also shocked that the beer was warm when it came out of the taps in the pubs. I thought the best tasting thing in London was the Big Mac. But I guess that’s got the same standardised quality wherever you go.

―― I intended to ask you about the recording itself (lol).

T: Ah, about drums? (Lol). When we went to the studio for the first time and I did the tuning on my own, the producer stopped me right there and said, “You don’t know this studio.” The producer then proceeded to do all the tuning on his own. I was surprised because his way of doing it was completely different from mine. And another thing that struck me as a huge difference from what things were like in Japan was the voltage. Their voltage was high there so the speed at which they captured sound was quick. That was something I only understood after having been there. The reason behind why Ringo Starr sounded off tune even despite low tuning in the later part of The Beatles’ career.

―― It was a trip that brought new discoveries, wasn’t it? Are what you learnt still relevant even now?

T: I don’t know about that. But that was quite the training, for everyone. Because ⁎ICONOCLASM was the one and only song that was OK in one take, while every other song I drummed like hell. Because my rhythm was apparently off. Imai and Hide didn’t have it easy either. He could tell when they weren’t pressing the frets properly with this finger and that finger just from how the sound wavers, and their hands got all beat up (lol). Then again, it’s because he was already angry with us from the very beginning. The moment we first arrived at the studio, he was all, “You guys were supposed to practise beforehand.”

―― While going through those hectic days, you got struck with an incident out of the blue and ended up with a half year long probation. Yagami-san said before that this period of time allowed you to take a long, hard look at your time with the band.

T: To put it bluntly, it felt like I was under house arrest for three months. Because photographers from the press were everywhere outside. We spoke about this too at the time, but honestly, being there left me all weird on the inside. Because I couldn’t practise at all. During this house arrest was the first time I thought about retiring.

―― Because you couldn’t practise?

T: Exactly. I was on the decline because I couldn’t drum. At the time, I had just entered my late 20s and realising that I couldn’t produce the same impact and speed after just half a year of not drumming… That’s why I was quite worried. I never expected that six months of doing nothing would result in such a big change.

―― I see. Was there something that changed your mind after this period of abstinence?

T: I think Hiruma (Hitoshi)-san’s involvement in ⁎Kurutta Taiyou’s production as our recording engineer played a big part. I’ve known Hiruma-san before that. He even visited our bathroom-less apartment in Asagayakita before. It just so happened that ⁎HURRY UP MODE had just been released when he visited back then, and when he listened to it on the crappy stereo we had, he said, “Hm～m, there are no lows, huh.” (Lol)

―― Even though they subsequently called it, “An explosively deep heavy bass (重低音がBUCK-TICKする/ juu teion ga bakuchiku suru)” (lol).

T: Yes, exactly. There was no deep heavy bass at all (lol). Hiruma-san was originally a drummer, the sound of drums is huge [to him]. And that’s why, when he did the remastering, he dropped the tone of the drums even lower than the original. That makes me very happy as a drummer though.

I did actually say that I wanted to retire back then, but they wouldn’t let me.
Their reaction was, “What nonsense are you saying?”

―― Because of your work with Hiruma-san, the band began to explore your sound more deeply which resulted in the release of rather experimental works like ⁎darker than darkness -style 93- and ⁎Six/Nine. What is Yagami-san’s view on how things turned out during this time?

T: That we were steadily moving towards becoming more and more niche during a time when all our juniors were putting out million-dollar releases (lol)?

―― Yes (lol).

T: I don’t remember exactly what thoughts I had, but I guess that’s just how we wanted to do music.

―― For Yagami-san, did you personally change the way you drummed together with the changes in the band’s music direction?

T: It just so happened that around the time we worked on Kurutta Taiyou and ⁎Koroshi no Shirabe This is NOT Greatest Hits, I changed the brand of the drums that I use. I had always been using Pearl, a local brand, then I switched to the American brand Ludwig. And since then, I kept wanting to change my drums a lot. It turns out that the brands have tones specific to them. Almost all of the Western music I listened to as a child used Ludwig’s drums. That was something I was aware of. And until that point in time [when I changed brands], I kept trying to recreate that sound with Pearl drums but I could never do it. One day, when I was reading (Rhythm ＆) Drums Magazine, I saw an orthodox snare that John Bonham and Cozy Powell and everyone used. And I don’t know why but it was on sale, 50% off so I asked our staff to buy one for me. I still remember very clearly that I took it out of the box, set it up without any adjustments, and the moment I hit it, the sound I had been pursuing resounded. Right there and then, I knew that, “Ah, this is it.” That my idea of trying to create this sound using Japanese-made drums was wrong. I realised that it’s about the brand-specific tones. Since then, I have been buying more and more pieces. Instead of going for current productions, I’d go on buying sprees for vintages like models from the 70s and all that.

 

―― The band continued to evolve with the establishment of your independent management firm in 1996 where Yagami-san was appointed as CEO. Some time ago, D’ERLANGER’s Tetsu-san spoke to Yagami-san when he took on the role of CEO of his own firm, and he said that you told him, “Being president means being the one who protects the band.” Those words really struck a chord.

T: Isn’t that exactly what it is? The captain of a sinking ship is the last one to leave it, right? After he saves everyone. If the ship is going to sink, he’s got no choice but to sink with it. That’s the idea. Back then, I felt that I had to be responsible for everything. Except that I had the same equal share earnings as everyone (lol).

―― In that same year, you also broke away from Victor, your debut label. Looking at BUCK-TICK’s history of events, your activities gradually decreased and there was even a time when you had to postpone a tour because Sakurai-san suddenly fell ill. That was an exceptionally difficult time, wasn’t it?

T: Well, there was nothing we could do, was there? I quite enjoyed the work of negotiation on each occasion though. Deep down, I’m the kind of person who would continue to be defiant even when I’m down on my knees. But I can’t let Sakurai take on those things, can I? My father was a CEO so I’ve always been looking at someone who’s a CEO as an example to take after. There’s this TV show, a pretty old one, where Hana Hajime says to Ueki Hitoshi, “You’re fired!” Seeing that, I commented to my father, “Must be nice to fire whoever whenever.” And he scolded me, “You fool! Firing someone at a whim is dismissal without cause. I’ll get sued!” I was only an elementary school student at the time, but I really got the sense that it’s not easy being a CEO (lol).

―― So after your Mercury era, you switched labels to BMG Funhouse in 2000 where things started to slowly pick up again. Yagami-san was around 40 at the time. You’ve mentioned before that you considered retirement during this period of time because it  was physically demanding for you.

T: That’s right. There was a change in CEO at the time too, to Acchan. There’s a reason for that. It’s written in my autobiography, but I got divorced around that time. That was really tough to handle and my mental state was in ruins. Speaking of my physical form, interestingly, when a person is mentally unstable, they lose their motivation too, don’t they? That’s exactly how I felt back then. And that’s also why I kept making mistakes on stage. Even though rehearsals went perfectly well. It felt like I dug my own grave and went into it myself because of the pressure. That’s why Yuta was raging mad at me quite a lot. Like, “Why does Anii (Yagami) only make mistakes during the actual concert?” Back then, I was also nicknamed “Rehearsal King (Riha King / リハキング)”. To say that I’m only good at rehearsals. That’s how bad things got. That’s why I really was afraid of going up on stage. I didn’t want to be on stage. Because I’d keep thinking about whether I will make a mistake, whether I will fail, and all those kinds of things. Even though I’ve never once thought like that when we debuted, you know? Because, weirdly enough, I was so full of confidence (lol).

―― I suppose Yuta-san threw his honest opinion straight at you because he’s your biological sibling, but how did your other band mates treat Yagami-san in that situation?

T: Everyone knew what was going on so I guess they understood. I think that’s why they suggested Acchan take over as CEO, probably.

―― So that’s what happened. When your mental health is in jeopardy, it’s pretty difficult to break out of it, isn’t it?

T: It’s easier to give up, isn’t it? That’s for sure. I did actually say that I wanted to retire back then, but they wouldn’t let me. If, back then, they said, “Sure, go ahead,” then I’d probably have quit. I would’ve retired.

―― How did they react back then?

T: “What nonsense are you saying?”

―― Thank goodness your band mates are like that. How long did this difficult situation go on for?

T: Probably about 2, 3 years? That’s when I started going to the gym. To build up strength and to improve my mental health. What I train at the gym honestly isn’t the muscles that I use for drumming. But when I exercise, it’s like I forget about everything for a while. It helps to relieve me of all my different stresses.

―― Then, in 2004, individual members of the band started their own solo activities. Yagami-san also formed Blue Sky in which you play music by your musical inspirations. Did that turn out to be an emotional turning point for you?

T: In a way. BUCK-TICK might be as good as a business, but there’s a part of Blue Sky that you could say is a pursuit of amateurism. Even if we mess up, we just laugh it off. Something like that. Our bassist KANAME-san is a veteran too, while Harada Kenta-kun is someone I’ve known for a long time, and our guitarists Yagi (Masato)-san is someone I became acquainted with through Minato (Masafumi)-kun’s introduction, but I’ve known everyone for quite a while already so that’s what made it good. 

―― So the second retirement threat was avoided through fitness.

T: That’s right. First, right before ⁎Aku no Hana, and then before and after I turned 40. Exactly around the time of my climacteric years.

I just hope that we’ll be able to work together for a long time to come. But I’m just taking things a year at a time.
All I want is to make sure that I won’t have any regrets regardless of when my game is over.

―― Since then, it looks to me that the condition of the band and your activities have been soaring to where we are now at this point in time. Although, on the side of recording production, the band changed up its order of recording around the time of ⁎Yume Miru Uchuu to recording the drums last. How did this change affect Yagami-san?

T: Being the first to be recorded, I can’t predict Imai’s effector sounds that would come in later, can I? At best, I could base my guesses off the sample recordings and follow that, but then I’d end up tuning my drums according to a guitar part that isn’t complete yet. If I do this, there is a possibility that the drums could end up getting buried when Imai decides to make a lot of noise at certain parts later on. To this end, recording my part after getting the full complete data means that I can take all of that into consideration, and I can do my tuning and all that better too. So I actually thought that it’s good in that sense. And in fact, this was something that Murakami “Ponta” Shuichi-san did for Izumiya Shigeru’s recording back around 1990. When I went to the studio back when we started doing this, Ponta-san was there and he asked, “What happened?” So I told him, “I’m the last one to record.” When he heard that, he was surprised though. Ponta-san then said this was something they used to do way back in the day. But according to him, it’s not about the tuning but, “It’s good because you get a sense of what the song is supposed to feel like.” Maybe that’s something studio musicians have to think about there and then. So that’s probably why he finds that it’s better for the drum part to come in later after the arrangement is set in place.

―― September’s upcoming best-of concept album ⁎CATALOGUE THE BEST 35th anniv. is a collection of songs from your discography categorised into 5 genres that shows us once again how varied BUCK-TICK’s sound can be. While there’s an electronic era, there’s also an era when you went all out with an organic band sound. Was there anything that Yagami-san paid attention to through all the changes in BUCK-TICK’s music?

T: You know what’s funny? We wanted to do all sorts of things in our 20s and 30s. But now, instead, we’re not really doing anything (lol). Those periods come and go, don’t they? Wanting to bury something, but on the contrary, there’s no need to right now. Things like that. In the context of drums, I’ve started wondering about things like, if I hit the cymbals once, is it enough or not? Then there’s the dynamics. How strong or weak it should be. I wouldn’t consider these things in the past and I’d just be satisfied with drumming all out. Maybe I grew tired of that type of cadence or…… I’ve finally become emotionally stable. Because I used to be emotionally unstable (lol). When I had a dialogue session with Tsunoda☆Hiro-san, we spoke a little bit about this. There are people who drum as if they’re angry even though it’s a ballad. That’s because of emotional instability. You’ll gradually learn how to prepare yourself for it and drum. Simply put, with songs like ballads, just drum as if it’s okay for the drums to be inaudible. But it takes time for drummers to get their emotions to that stage, doesn’t it? What I think is that it’s important to learn control because the drum is an instrument that makes loud sounds. Frankly speaking, it’s a noisy instrument to begin with. Because it’s something you hit to play. It’s important to figure out how to make something like that sound musical. That’s all I think about these days. I can’t just focus on using a drum set that sounds good, or picking a cymbal that sounds nice. If Imai tells me, “I want a kind of cheap-sounding cymbal like in Misemono-goya,” then I’d deliberately use a cracked cymbal too.

―― BUCK-TICK’s sound has consistently been revolutionary, and I think that in playing the role of supporting its base, Yagami-san creates a unique groove as someone who emphasises the importance of basics.

T: Although we’re making music in all kinds of different styles, all of it still comes from the same human beings so no matter what we do, it’ll turn into BUCK-TICK in the end. Although, there are definitely times when I don’t have the energy as a drummer, so now, I just want to keep doing my best consistently so that I don’t become a burden. Because symptoms of ageing are bound to come up.  I don’t know how many more years I can keep doing this though.

―― Also, being the eldest in the band, I’ve always thought that your respect for your other band mates is something we can all learn from. I believe that one or two years’ difference in age when you’re younger would’ve been a big difference, but was there a point in time when your attitude towards your band mates changed?

T: This is basically something that has always been. Nothing happened, nothing changed. Besides, I’ve always felt like I’m sort of like a supporting musician (lol). That’s something I often joke about (lol). But it’s nice, isn’t’ it? We’re like the Soul Brothers. Staying together in that sense. I never thought I’d be making music with them for 35 years, much less imagine that I’d still be drumming into my 60s. If I were a working adult I’d already be retiring from the workforce (lol).

―― That’s true.

T: I wanted to be building model figurines of ships at home (lol).

―― Heading towards the band’s 35th anniversary, what do you think about your band mates?

T: I just hope that we’ll be able to work together for a long time to come. Staff members and fans have been telling me, “Please keep going until you’re 70!” But I don’t know about that, right? That’s 10 years later. Having come to this age, I’m just taking things a year at a time. All I want is to make sure that I won’t have any regrets regardless of when my game is over. Because I really don’t know when that will happen.

―― I won’t say “Please keep going until you’re 70!”, or anything specific like that, but I would very much like for Yagami-san to keep on drumming for as long as you enjoy it.

T: A song that Imawano Kiyoshiro-san sang comes to mind. Titled, “I want to be happy but I don’t want to work for it (幸せになりたいけど　頑張りたくない / Shiawase ni naritai kedo ganbaritakunai) (lol). Such a song existed.

―― “Let’s take it easy (ラクに行こうぜ / raku ni ikou ze)”, right?

T: I want to be happy but I don’t want to work for it. The essence of my personality is pretty much an unmotivated person. Or a lazy person. I’m someone who wants to live a life of fun and that’s how I’ve always been since I was a child. If I could, I’d hire someone who looks exactly like me and control them from home. Or maybe we should make a robot that looks exactly like me (lol).

―― No, no, no, anyway, you’re still keeping up with practice even now, playing jazz, expanding the breadth of your studies, right?

T: That’s because I’ve always enjoyed jazz. At one point, I kept buying a stupid amount of drum instructional videos and I watched them a lot. Seeing that, Yuta said, “Looks like Anii has a fetish for techniques.” (Lol) They’re professionals, so it’d be a good thing to remember their techniques, right? He’s just the kind of guy to say those kinds of things. Fetish for techniques. Really makes you wonder what he’s really trying to say to his big brother.

―― (Lol) Everyone, including Anii, has such great posture  when we see you on stage. Maybe that’s one of the reasons why you all still seem youthful to us.

T: It’s not been the same recently. There are some things I’ve noticed. Like, I’m good with BUCK-TICK’s characteristic four-on-the-floor beats, but when we move to faster songs, I start to hunch a little. What I refer to is a boxing methodology. It’s easier to throw punches when slouching your back. That’s what I noticed when I watched boxing matches, and Yamaki (Hideo) has that same, sort of similar kind of hunched posture. That’s something I’ve recently put into application.

―― You’re definitely enthusiastic about research and study. Have you ever thought about what’s next for BUCK-TICK?　I recall that you’ve casually mentioned before that it would be better for BUCK-TICK to revisit the organic band sound.

T: Recording is all about creating something, isn’t it? Maybe I’ve been influenced by Blue Sky too. Because Blue Sky gets everything done in one go, more or less. When we record it all in one take, it’s as good as a studio concert, isn’t it? If that’s how it happens, I’d have to practice again, and I’d expect that these sorts of problems would crop up, but I think it’s also good to have songs that have that sense of approximation and ruggedness. It’s not a bad thing to include songs that were recorded in one take in the album. It’s just that…… I don’t think we [BUCK-TICK] would do that (lol). That’s how bands used to do it, right? There wouldn’t be any dubbing done after words. Everyone would just come together and start playing with a “5, 6, 7, 8!” Although, I think that’s only possible because everyone’s really really good at what they do. When I talk to the people I look up to, I think they’re all amazing. Because those people who have hit legend status are all superhuman to me.

―― I would think that Yagami-san is also in that sphere from the perspective of young drummers. Leaving aside whether or not BUCK-TICK is Visual-Kei, I think it’s an inspiration for up and coming musicians to see someone in this scene celebrating their 60th birthday.

T: We often joke about it though, right? That we’re “the pioneering Visual-Kei” (lol). There was no such categorisation in the past, but once it was coined, there were times when I saw our CDs in the Visual-Kei section when I visited record stores and those sorts of places. Whenever I see that, I’d remove them and move them back into the “Ha (ハ)” section¹.

―― I see (lol). Are you against being categorised there?

T: More than that, it’s because we’re not a “kei (系 / genre)”. When BUCK-TICK first debuted, people from Victor’s music production department came to us, and the film department said, “We want to market you as a visual artist.” ‘VIsual’ here refers to film and video. That’s why we made our debut through film, with music videos for not only our singles but also a number of other songs too.

―― Like how all the songs in Aku no Hana and Six/Nine had music videos.

T: Yes, exactly. That was because of our work with the film department. That’s why we’re not a “kei”, we’re a Visual Artist (lol). That’s how Victor’s film department referred to us.

―― There are many of your drummer seniors who are still active in the industry, but does Yagami-san have your own ideal vision?

T: It would certainly be nice if I can continue doing this for a long time to come and finish the race.

―― As a band?　Or as a drummer?

T: Band, because that’s fundamental to me. Be it BUCK-TICK or Blue Sky, being able to keep any one of them going would make me happy anyway. Wanting to continue with this for a long time to come is essentially my hope. If I were to do this until I’m 70, as mentioned earlier, then that’s another 10 years. There are times when I wonder whether I can, though. I joke about this a lot, but my drumsticks are getting lighter and lighter, you know? So I keep wondering whether they’d end up becoming as light as serving chopsticks at some point (lol). We’re really doing anything and everything to make things easier.  That said, amazing seniors like Takahashi Makoto-san and ARB’s KEITH-san have never changed the weight of their drumsticks from whatever they used in their 20s. Remarkable people like them are still going strong, so I’ll be doing my best and learning from them too.

 

 

Notes:

『TABOO』＝ Released January 1989. Their 3rd album.

「ICONOCLASM」＝ A track from TABOO.

『狂った太陽』＝ Kurutta Taiyou. Released February 1991. Their 5th album

『HURRY UP MODE』＝ Released April 1987. Their indies album.

A remixed version, HURRY UP MODE（1990MIX） was made and released as a major record label version in Febuary 1990.

『darker than darkness -styIe 93-』＝ Released June 1993. Their 7th album.

『Six/Nine』＝ Released May 1995. Their 8th album.

『殺シノ調べ This Is NOT Greatest HIts』＝ Released March 1992. A self-cover album.

『悪の華』＝ Aku no Hana. Released February 1990. Their 4th album.

『夢見る宇宙』＝ Yume Miru Uchuu. Released September 2012. Their 18th album.

『CATALOGUE THE BEST 35th anniv.』＝ To be released 21 September 2022. Their best-of concept album in celebration of their 35th anniversary.

 

¹ 90% of the CDs in music and record stores would be categorised based on the Japanese alphabetical order. In this case, as BUCK-TICK is バクチク (bakuchiku) when written in Japanese, they will belong to the ハ (ha) alphabet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki
Images: Yoshiyuki