Tag: Yoshida Hikaru

DER ZIBET | [Jun 2024] ROCK AND READ: DER ZIBET Feature

Posted on by Yoshiyuki

tribute to DER ZIBET/ISSAY
Tracing the footsteps of the King of Decadence

ROCK AND READ 106
June 2024

Photos provided by by M.Saito

DER ZIBET arrived in the music scene before the term “Visual-Kei” was even coined. Coinciding with the release of the tribute album, ISSAY gave life to FLOWERS – a tribute to Der Zibet – on the birthday of ISSAY who passed away last year, this feature will shed light on what kind of band this is and the person ISSAY was through a retelling of the history of DER ZIBET, the latest interview with HIKARU, and the interview with ISSAY about his personal history from a late-2005 issue of this magazine.

 

 

history of DER ZIBET
デルジベットの軌跡

Text by Yamamoto Hiroka
Photos provided by by M.Saito

 

DER ZIBET was formed exactly 40 years ago. Dubbed “the pioneer of decadence”, “musicians for musicians”, I hope you can get a sense of how great a band they are through this look into their history.

 

In an era where the mixing of genres had yet to exist
DER ZIBET’s music was unconventional from the very beginning

DER ZIBET formed 40 years ago, in 1984. The band consisted of five members; ISSAY (vocals) who had his own solo projects running and had been casted in the first commercial film that Macoto Tezka directed, TheLegend of the Stardust Brothers, HIKARU (guitar) who had already made his debut in 1982 with the band Be-Bops, HAL (bass) who was involved in ISSAY’s solo work alongside Morioka Ken (SOFT BALLET), MAYUMI (drums) who was once invited to join Seikima-II, and MAHITO (keyboard). In an era where the concept of “Visual-Kei” had even come about, let alone the term, just ISSAY’s presence in the music scene was impressive. His performances which incorporated all that he learnt since his youth under the tutelage of pantomimist Mochidzuki Akira were unlike any other, and he made his debut as an actor even before DER ZIBET.

Although a member when the band came together, MAHITO left and DER ZIBET debuted with their single, Matsu Uta in 1985. In the same year, they released their first album, Violetter Ball -Murasakiiro no Budoukai- which was produced by Haruo Chikada. Even though their vocal and performance abilities were still developing, DER ZIBET’s music had always been unconventional from the very beginning with how they channelled into rock elements of other genres like punk, progressive rock, glam, new wave, jazz, funk, tango, and many more. Of course, this was an era where the mixing of genres had yet to exist too.

At the time, ISSAY would erect a streetlight on stage and sing while smoking Gitanes. He was an individualistic vocalist who gave the impression that this band might turn out feeling more like a solo project, but the instrumentalists HIKARU, HAL, and MAYUMI weren’t  sequacious, which was a good thing. On the topic of their superior and intelligent music sense, I will never forget how a magazine back then asked, “What other influences do you have outside of music?”, to which everyone responded with answers like literature and film, theatre, pantomime and the like. ISSAY’s literature-refined lyrics revolved around a 16th-note beat and incorporated odd time signatures; techniques which made such complex music sound like pop music were already used since those days.

With a treasure trove of free ideas in both their music and their performances,
they were later known as “musicians for musicians”.

In 1987, they released their second album, Electric Moon. The shows they played were centred around a main “Radical Dance” concept and an underlying “mystery park” theme. On their third tour, they left quite the impression with a performance that featured toilet paper draping down from the ceiling. It was only later on that they got known as “the musicians’ musician”, but it’s impossible to talk about the basis of it without talking about the early days of their career which were a treasure trove of free ideas in both their music and their performances. Incidentally, prior to BUCK-TICK’s debut, Sakurai Atsushi loved listening to DER ZIBET and went to watch them perform; this was how they first got acquainted.

Then, the first turning point for the band came in the form of Okano HAJIME and Kisaki Kenji coming together to produce their third album, DER ZIBET which was released in 1988. ISSAY took on a wilder appearance dressed entirely in leather as they played powerful pop music with a flavour of popular Japanese music at the time. Their national tour for this album, “WHOLE LOTTA LIVE! ～Mune ippai no ai wo～ (胸いっぱいの愛を / with a heartful of love)” culminated in a final performance that was also their first show at Shibuya Public Hall.

Just as it began to look like they were heading in a direction along the lines of Japan’s beat rock scene, they flew straight to London soon after the tour ended and stayed there for about a month to work on their new album at the Maison Rouge Studio, where famous rock classics were born. The sound engineer they worked with was Craig Leon who would later go on to work with Jesus Jones. The result was GARDEN, a gothic 4th album which encapsulated London’s atmosphere and even its typically grey skies. At the time, ISSAY held Sisters of Mercy and The Mission in high regard and after returning to Japan, he spoke about how he could sense how different the history of rock is there through their recording methods, saying, “I realised how great they were.” It even happened that Hanada Hiroyuki from The Roosters swung by the studio for a visit and ended up participating as a guest guitarist.

Although they never made it big, DER ZIBET’s shows always drew a large audience. I don’t know how ISSAY felt about being given titles like “the pioneer of decadence” and “a rock band ahead of its time”, but their 5th album, CARNIVAL, which HIKARU produced himself involved keyboardists HOPPY Kamiyama and DIE (＝D.I.E.) who later became a support musician for ZI:KILL and then a member of hide with Spread Beaver. Their sixth single, Mammoth no Yoru, which turned into one of their most popular songs to perform live, was a splendid combination of MAYUMI’s rapid-fire tom drum playing and HAL’s bass lines reminiscent of the primitive age. There was even a period of time when ISSAY’s lyrics got cyber-inspired; in an era before PCs were commonplace, he described non-conformists as “bugs created by god” or a “beloved programming mistake”.

After this, DER ZIBET produced album after album of masterpieces.

The album HOMO DEMENS, which was heavily inspired by free jazz saxophonist John Zorn’s music, included a cover of a song by The Doors. HIKARU’s compelling guitars which grew in depth and ISSAY’s alluring yet cutting expression left quite the impression. It even featured a miraculous coincidence of John Zorn happening to be in Japan by chance and actually appearing on the album as a guest with his saxophone.

Then, in 1991, they released Shishunki Ⅰ – Upper Side – and Shishunki Ⅱ – Downer Side – which could be said to be their greatest work pre-hiatus alongside HOMO DEMENS. The long interview where ISSAY had to face his own loneliness and pain as he spoke candidly about his youth could be said to be what led to these albums. At the time, ISSAY said that the original essence of rock music was similar to the feeling of adolescence. He said, “While it has a very aggressive, sizzling rock and roll image, doesn’t it also have a very abstract, emotional side to it at the same time? Our band has always played with these two sides, but we felt it would be a good idea to shape them properly this time.” Incidentally, Shishunki Ⅱ also houses a legendary songs among BUCK-TICK fans, namely ISSAY and Sakurai Atsushi’s duet, Masquerade and 4D Vision no Rasen Kaidan which featured Imai Hisashi. Sakurai Atsushi even appeared as a surprise guest at Kudan Kaikan for the final show of the tour.

During the time when DER ZIBET had fewer live shows, ISSAY and TATSUYA formed the programming music unit HAMLET MACHINE. HIKARU also busied himself with Pugs, a band he formed with ex-PINK members Okano HAJIME and HOPPY Kamiyama. Meanwhile, in 1993, DER ZIBET released the album TRASH LAND which told of the “collapse of a fictional city”, a story that would not be out of place looking at today’s cities lined with high-rise apartment buildings. The following year they released the album POP MANIA, again with Okano HAJIME as producer.

Then, in the same year, ISSAY announced his own solo album entitled FLOWERS which was a collection of hit songs from the Showa era . hide, BUCK-TICK’s Sakurai Atsushi and Hoshino Hidehiko, LUNA SEA’s SUGIZO, Kiyoharu, THE MAD CAPSULE MARKETS’ MOTOKATSU, DIE IN CRIES’ TAKASHI and many more big-name musicians were involved in this album, making it a work  worthy of the name “King of Decadence”. In this same period, Pugs embarked on their debut tour in the USA.

Despite DER ZIBET releasing Green in 1995 and KIRIGIRISU in 1996, they announced that they would be going on an indefinite hiatus that same year. Regarding activities prior to the band’s break, HIKARU reminisced, “Instead of Japanese bands, we only ever thought about competing with foreign bands.”

The interview with ISSAY which is being republished again in this issue is from the time when he was busy as a member of ΦPhI, a band he formed with 44MAGNUM’s Hirose Satoshi, HAL and Satou Minoru, as a part of ISSAY meets DOLLY, the unit he formed with Fukuhara Mari, a member of Lynx, a band he formed with X JAPAN’s HEATH, SAY→ICHIRO, and Matarow, and as a part of HAMLET MACHINE. HIKARU is now busy with the two bands he formed, Loco-Apes and onseiriki, although the frontmen of both bands have never met.

After this period, DER ZIBET made a miraculous comeback in 2009 with the original five-member line-up but that will be covered in the interview with HIKARU which comes after this. I won’t go into too much detail here, but their creative drive did not wane in the slightest. They went on to release the conceptual two-part album ROMANOID Ⅰ and ROMANOID Ⅱ. Looking at ISSAY’s image and the artwork featured, they then continued to release albums that exuded depth and sex appeal akin to that of aged wine.

Following DER ZIBET’s reunion, in 2013, ISSAY formed KA.F.KA with Tsuchiya Masami, Morioka Ken, Ueno Kouji, and MOTOKATSU. He also took on acting roles, appearing in films like director Macoto Tezka’s The Brand New Legend of the Stardust Brothers and Tezuka’s Barbara. But he passed away suddenly in August 2023 just before the 40th anniversary of DER ZIBET’s debut. HIKARU said, “Before our hiatus, I was making music I wanted to make, but after our reunion, I made music with ISSAY’s lyrics in mind. I was often surprised by what I came up with. It really was a lot of fun.” While writing this article, my heart felt unbearably heavy as I was reminded that Morioka Ken, Sakurai Atsushi, and HEATH had also left us.

The tribute album, ISSAY gave life to FLOWERS – a tribute to Der Zibet – is slated for release on July 6th, ISSAY’s birthday. I sincerely hope that DER ZIBET, a band so completely devoted to music, will continue to have an audience for generations to come.

 

 

ISSAY gave life to FLOWERS – a tribute to Der Zibet –
Releasing 6 July 2024／2-CD・18 tracks

Participating musicians

Tsuchiya Masami, MORRIE, Kobayashi Yuusuke (The Novembers／THE SPELLBOUND), Diamond☆Yukai & Kogure “shake” Takehiko (Diamond Shake／RED WARRIORS), Matsuoka Mitsuru (SOPHIA). NARASAKI (Coaltar Of The Deepers), Morishige Juichi (ZIGGY), PATA (X JAPAN／Ra:IN), kyo (D’ERLANGER), Chu-ya (Allergy／De-LAX／LOOPUS／FAR EAST PHALLUS KICKER), SUGIZO (LUNA SEA／X JAPAN／THE LAST ROCKSTARS／SHAG), SAKURA (gibkiy gibkiy gibkiy／Rayflower／ZIGZO), Okano HAJIME, BAKI, “CRAZY” COOL-JOE & Minato Masafumi (Drunkard Ball), Sakurai Ao & Ishii Shuji (cali≠gari), Kamiryo Wataru (NeoBallad), Kaya, tezya (tezya & the sightz／Euphoria), michi. (MASCHERA／S.Q.F／ALICE IN MENSWEAR), Kimura Seizi (ZEPPET STORE), Chiwaki Mayumi, Shimoyama Jun (Rock’n Roll Gypsies／ex. THE ROOSTERZ), Ken-ichi (Valentine D.C.／VERTUEUX), JUN (Valentine D.C.), Honda Takeshi (PERSONZ／Effectric Gurtar), DIE (Ra:IN／hide with Spread Beaver), Dantoudai no MELODY, Hashizume Akito (the superlative degree／HUSH), RIKIJI (Oblivion Dust／IMOCD!), Hoppy Kamiyama (God Mountain), AUTO MOD clas-six, etc. (in no particular order)

 

 

 

 

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Interview with HIKARU

Interview/Text = Sugie Yuki (杉江由紀)

DER ZIBET is
ultimately, my life’s work.

HIKARU formed DER ZIBET alongside ISSAY in 1984 as the band’s guitarist and main composer. In this interview, the big brother of DER ZIBET, HIKARU continues the story from where ISSAY left off in the interview that we published in this magazine back in December 2005.

 

profile
Autonym: Yoshida Hikaru. While he has played a part in many artists’ and bands’ recording work as a guitarist, he is also a music producer. He formed DER ZIBET in 1984, went on an indefinite hiatus in 1996, and then officially restarted activities in 2009. Golden☆Best Sixty Years, DER ZIBET’s best-of compilation album of their work released under the Sixty Records label is slated for release on 19 June 2024.
derzibet.com

 

It wasn’t as if everyone suddenly said, “Let’s bring DZ back again!”
Things just naturally turned out this way.

――This issue includes the interview with ISSAY-san that came out in #005 which was published in December 2005. At the very end of that interview, ISSAY-san said, “I have no intention of doing DER ZIBET again right now.” At the same time, he also said, “We being humans, we never know what will happen when, so I want to do whatever I can.” Does HIKARU-san remember what you thought about DER ZIBET during that period? 

HIKARU (H): Actually, in June of 2005, I met ISSAY for the first time in a long while at DER ZIBET’s manager’s wedding and there, he told me, “So, I got a Lynx live at Numazu this autumn, and it’s also DER ZIBET’s 20th anniversary so I’m thinking of playing DZ songs with Lynx. You wanna perform as a guest?”

――Even now I remember very well the “Lynx PLAY DER ZIBET” live performance at Numazu Noir which took place on 22 October 2005. It was such a profound feeling seeing ISSAY-san and HIKARU-san standing on the same stage together for the first time since the band went on hiatus in 1996. Of course, heath-san (HEATH) being there as Lynx’s bassist also added to it, but I thought that really was quite the show to remember.

H:It was. Well, at the time, it simply ended with thoughts along the lines of how it sure was fun to perform together with everyone. At that point in time, conversations about restarting things or anything like that didn’t come up.

――The next thing that happened was the live and releases in July 2008 that you did under the band name “reD biteZ”. Those activities were definitely linked to DER ZIBET’s revival, right?

H: The one who created that opportunity was HAL. HAL reached out to everyone and gathered us. That said, I, ISSAY, and MAHITO were there but at the time, MAYUMI, our drummer was undergoing medical treatment so Satou Minoru (ex. ΦPhI) came in.

――Doesn’t that mean that the rhythm part of the band was made up of the ex. PhI team?

H: Yes, yes. At first, the five of us gathered and started rehearsing. For HAL’s rehabilitation.

――The how and why of this had to do with HAL getting rather severely injured in an accident and making a miraculous recovery, right? It was then that he said, “I want to perform in a band again.”

H: That’s why the five of us gathered at a studio just about every month for rehearsals as a form of rehabilitation for him. In fact, I think we probably did that consistently for over a year. Then, while doing that, we started talking about doing a show and that was when Minoru said, “Please call MAYUMI.” And only then did the five members of DZ come back together.

――When DER ZIBET had its major debut, the band was made up of ISSAY-san, HIKARU-san, HAL-san, and MAYUMI-san. MAHITO-san was originally part of the band prior, so it’s pretty intriguing to see that the original members have only now come back together.

H: It wasn’t as if everyone suddenly said, “Let’s bring DZ back again!” Things just naturally turned out this way.

――Was that performance you did under the “reD biteZ” name back then more of a showcase ahead of the actual restart?

H: Honestly, at first, we were worried about how much HAL could take and whether he could handle it. So we [did that show] with the thought of testing the waters first.

――Despite all the twists and turns, in March 2009, DER ZIBET announced PRIMITIVE, the first album in 13 years since Kirigirisu and finally restarted activities officially. The most recent album release was 2018’s Fujouri (不条理), but following the reformation of the band, what was HIKARU-san focused on this time around?

H: Most of all I didn’t want to make music that sounded nostalgic. That’s the only thing that I often said to ISSAY too, and he also said that he wanted to keep doing novel, new things.

――We know that you generally would perform popular songs from your old catalogue in shows, but there’s definitely a strong impression that DER ZIBET evolves and matures every time you release new music.

H: I’m pretty sure that’s got to do with changing with the times.

 

Our relationship changed a lot compared to the way things were pre-hiatus
I felt more strongly that “we’re the ones running DZ” after our reunion than before.

――I think the members of the band spent about 10 years or so away from each other, so when you came back together to restart activities as DER ZIBET, was there anything that HIKARU-san felt you rediscovered or got reacquainted with? For example, with regards to ISSAY-san’s singing and his lyrics.

H: Here’s the thing; the way things were in 1996 when we released Kirigirisu was the same as when we made our major debut — I and ISSAY could not get along at all. To the extent that when we debuted, I was already thinking about whether I should quit after one year (lol).

――It was already that bad right from the very start? But when ISSAY-san and HIKARU-san appeared on a streaming program I hosted some years ago, ISSAY-san sounded like he was joking when he said, “It’s not that I couldn’t get along with HIKARU. We just weren’t on good terms (lol).”

H: During our major label days, it kind of felt like I was dragging myself through those ten-ish years in those circumstances. In the beginning, I was also the type to write lyrics so I would write a little bit here and there, but relatively early on, ISSAY told me, “Stop writing lyrics, won’t you?” I was pretty taken aback and I guess our relationship only worsened since then. But midway, I started doing production work for our albums so we started thinking about the lyrics and discussing together. That’s why although we weren’t at loggerheads all the time, our relationship changed quite a lot when we compare the way things were right before the hiatus and after our reunion. A big part of it was how great ISSAY’s singing had become when we reformed the band. That was a surprise.

――While DER ZIBET was on hiatus, ISSAY-san experienced quite the variety of live performances as ΦPhI, HAMLET MACHINE, ISSAY meets DOLLY, and Lynx. I would think that he honed his skills as a vocalist in this process.

H: Because ISSAY’s voice pre-hiatus was weak, wasn’t it? A lot of times I’d worry and wonder if it’d be okay, but when we started working together again, his voice had become really powerful. Even his lyrics now had depth so that was another area that I noticed had changed.

――I think it cannot be denied that different sides have grown more appealing as time passes.

H: Adding to that, when I look at our old song lyrics again but with this perspective now, I can see that these aren’t just any old lyrics after all. Maybe back then, he wasn’t great at how he expressed himself, or maybe he was just too direct or something. That’s also something that I only understood after we reunited because we started drinking together too (lol). We started drinking together and talking about all manners of things while drinking.

――That’s a really heartwarming story.

H: Even the album titles we came up with while drinking together. Those were really good times. I felt more strongly that “we’re the ones who are DZ” after our reunion than before.

――What was it like prior, then?

H: During our major label days, there was always this feeling that they were “letting us” be DZ. It wasn’t literal, as in someone letting us do our thing, but our schedule was decided before we knew anything, and it felt as if we were just there to clear whatever work they had put in front of us. On that note, we’re our own management office and label post-reunion which means that we ourselves make the decisions on what to do so the amount of things we experienced felt overwhelmingly intense.

――The music you made after the reunion was nothing other than outstanding too; PRIMITIVE exuded an emotional vibe befitting a new beginning, the conceptual series that was ROMANOID Ⅰ and ROMANOID Ⅱ, NINE STORIES which was announced right before your 30th anniversary, Bessekai (別世界) invited listeners to the other side, and Fujouri (不条理) in which the glamorous and dramatic essence of DER ZIBET was condensed.

H: Unfortunate that not a lot of people listened to them, right? (Lol)

――Presently, I believe all the music you released post-reunion has been made available on online streaming services so it would be great if everyone would give it a listen.

H: It would. I want the stuff we did pre-hiatus to be made available on streaming services too but the rights for those are complicated and all over the place so it’s a little difficult. But maybe people will be able to listen to those too in the near future. Also, we’re also releasing Sixty Years, a best-of album on the 19th of June which is a compilation of songs we released under the Sixty Record label.

――That’s great news. In the first place, as the musicians’ musician, DER ZIBET is a band that doesn’t only attract music fans but also has garnered respect from many artists. You’ve always been known as a band for connoisseurs so I’m very happy that even more people will get the opportunity to listen to you through streaming services. On that note, does HIKARU-san have anything to say about being labelled as the musicians’ musician?

H: I’ve actually heard all sorts of things about that before. But although I have a lot of friends who are musicians, I don’t have much recollection of being respected (lol).

――Including BUCK-TICK’s Sakurai (Atsushi), don’t you think that there are a lot of well-known people who look up to you?

H: Well, but I say that because I don’t have younger musicians coming up to me to tell me these things directly. In that sense, I think ISSAY probably had quite a large network though. For me, I just have a few musician friends here and there who I go drinking with.

 

I actually have the sound sources for seven unreleased DER ZIBET songs.
They’re demo vocals, but the lyrics are already in and the recording quality isn’t too bad.

――I wanted to talk about post-COVID DER ZIBET too. In recent years, HIKARU-san and ISSAY-san has had a number of opportunities to perform live under the name “from DER ZIBET”. Could you share a little about how this came about?

H: As in, why we had to do things as “from DER ZIBET”, right? A part of it is difficult to put into words, but our bassist and drummer couldn’t quite do it the way we did pre-hiatus, you see. Outside of album production, continuing to perform live as DER ZIBET was tough, it was difficult.

――What I’m sensing is a strong desire against going on another hiatus but instead to keep up with activities as “from DER ZIBET”.

――If so, what were HIKARU-san’s thoughts at the time on how the future DER ZIBET would carry out activities?

H: Ah, well, we were barely hanging on. Because it was a constant worry. Last year, we performed as DER ZIBET at only two shows; in April at Yokohama’s 7th Avenue and in July at Meguro LiveStation. But I actually still have the sound sources for seven unreleased DER ZIBET songs.

――As many as seven?　When were they produced?

H: We probably started two years ago, working on them on a relatively on and off basis. But we actually progressed based on having spoken about intending to release them as an album this year. We were still planning to add more songs too.

――Do these seven songs have ISSAY-san’s singing recorded already?

H: Demo vocals, yes and the lyrics are already in. The recording quality isn’t too bad so I was thinking maybe it’s good enough to go.

――Since you have such precious unreleased songs, I do hope that they’ll be released to the world. 

H: Even if I wanted to do that, there’s still a bunch of problems to overcome first though……

――In terms of timing, this October will mark the 40th anniversary of DER ZIBET’s start.

H: Furthermore, next year will be the 40th debut anniversary. I still don’t know whether we’ll be able to release the songs next year but we’re going ahead with that goal in mind. Also, my band Loco-Apes will be releasing our album Republic of Gbrica (ジブリカ共和国 / Jiburika Kyouwakoku) this 26th of September. And on release day, we’ll be playing at Shimokitazawa Que too. There’ll also be a DZ tribute and event going on too.

(Republic of Gbrica)『ジブリ力共和国』 Loco-Apes
(Republic of Gbrica) 『ジブリ力共和国』 Loco-Apes

――That’s right. The tribute album, ISSAY gave life to FLOWERS – a tribute to Der Zibet – is going to be released on ISSAY’s birthday, the 6th of July and on the 4th of August, many of the artists who were involved in the tribute will be gathered at Shibuya duo MUSIC EXCHANGE where a live performance involving HIKARU-san staying on stage for just about the whole event will be held. When you came to learn that such a project was raised, how did HIKARU-san feel about it?

H: In terms of the tribute, it didn’t really click for me in the beginning. To me, I just felt that if people wanted to do it then by all means, just go ahead. But as more and more musicians joined and their numbers grew, I advised the organising committee that “It would be better if we involved a producer who could make sense of it all and put it all together, so we should get Okano (HAJIME) to do this.”

――Speaking of Okano HAJIME-san, he was also involved in DER ZIBET’s production in the past, and he’s also gone on the Pugs US tour with HIKARU-san as a fellow band member too. He’s someone you’ve got close ties to, isn’t he?

H: I couldn’t think of anyone else. In any case, there were a lot of different musicians participating in this tribute so I thought it’d be tough to bring all their sounds together. Even before talk of a tribute came up, Okano-san told me during a call we had that “I’m up for anything” so that also left an impression in my mind, you know? From what I heard, it seems like he quite enjoyed working on the production of the tribute so I’m glad.

――It appears that this tribute album will have two discs and the participating artists are made up of those who are from the same era as DER ZIBET, even seniors and juniors. What kind of impression does such a lineup leave you with?

H: I haven’t yet heard all of their music, not even all of Tsuchiya(Masami)-san’s, but it’s really quite the variety of people taking part and I think whatever they’ve come up with so far all sounds great.

――Members of Valentine D.C., a band who HIKARU-san once had a hand in producing, the band Dantoudai no MELODY which was newly formed by Kneuklid Romance’s Ogasawara Kenichi-san and YUTAKA-san, Akito-san (presently a member of the superlative degree) who was in the band ALL I NEED; all these artists a.k.a. HIKARU’s children are also involved in this tribute album. How do you feel about that?

H: I’m of course happy about it, and although I was worried until I got to hear their music (lol), all of them sounded cool so I’m relieved.

――No matter the artist, they all have some sort of connection to DER ZIBET but in particular, DIE-san (Ra:IN) was more than just a support musician during your HOMO DEMENS album era. He was as good as a quasi member of the band having gone on tour with you all, and during the tribute recording session, he even said, “To me, meeting DER ZIBET was the most significant thing of all [in my life]. You could almost say that my career as a professional musician started from there. In a sense, DER ZIBET is like the hometown where I was born.”

H: That’s probably very true. If I hadn’t dragged him in, DIE-chan might’ve never gotten a mohawk too (lol).

――This eventually led to his great work in hide with Spread Beaver too.

H: He got a mohawk when he was with DZ, and after that he got pulled into ZI:KILL, and after seeing him there, hide pulled him over. I don’t know how grateful he feels about that, though (lol). 

――I think he’s very grateful. He even participated in two songs for this tribute. Moving on, Honda Takeshi-san (PERSONZ) is a guitarist of the same generation as HIKARU-san who’s also taking part. Among the guitar enthusiasts, Honda-san and HIKARU-san appear to attract the same level of attention as guitarists who are skilled at using effects pedals.

H: I like effects pedals too but my sellability is not the same as Takeshi’s, is it? (Lol) But Takeshi and I are friends. We often went drinking together, and have also gone to watch each others’ live shows. And since he’s participating in the tribute, he wrote about DZ on X. Like how he thought maybe Japanese bands weren’t something to scoff at after seeing us. I just feel that he should’ve said so earlier back then (lol).

――This time, Watanabe Mitsugu-san from PERSONZ is also involved in another song, isn’t he?

H: They’ve never actually attended our live shows but they have joined us for just the afterparties before (lol). Speaking of which, Mitsugu called me to say, “I think I’ll do it.” I can’t remember when we exchanged phone numbers, but “Mitsugu” appeared on my phone screen (lol).

――An artist from your generation, Sumida Takeshi-san is also taking part [in this tribute]. Upon hearing of ISSAY-san’s passing last August 10th, he posted something very memorable on X, “When it comes to ISSAY, I would say that he’s a senior in our high school of culture. People say that he’s a pioneer of [the] visual [genre] but he’s in a whole other cultural class of his own. There isn’t the slightest trace of rowdiness in him at all. All of DER ZIBET are like that.” I think so too.

H: Right. I think that we’re a band who had no sort of jock culture or hierarchical relationship. Even between ISSAY and I, whenever we drink the conversation more or less always goes there. Talking about history and all that.

――That’s a pretty sober topic to go with finger food, isn’t it (lol).

H: When it comes to our history, he knows it all down to the details. From history, we’d move to talking about the album and the lyrics anyway. But I’m not that familiar with it. After our reunion, I listened to him talk about all sorts of things whenever we went drinking and when there was something which piqued my interest, I wanted to find some way to keep up [with the conversation] so I read all of Shiba Ryoutarou’s books, gathered my own materials. That was the kind of good influence he had on me.

――Being the band which you’ve been in with ISSAY-san, what is DER ZIBET to HIKARU-san?

H: It is ultimately my life’s work. Especially since after our reunion, this is the only place where I can perform the music I made myself, and that remains true even now. In the almost 17 years since the band came back together, ISSAY and MAHITO expanded on what I created which I found helpful and enjoyed. Looking back after this has all ended, I think we kept at it for a long time, and although I think it was good that we were able to do this for as long as we did, I just feel that there’s still a lot I want to do.

――Please, for the sake of DER ZIBET and your fans, let the unreleased songs see the light of day!

H: Right. Since I mentioned it here, I guess can only follow through with it.

――Lastly. Tell us what you like about ISSAY-san.

H: What do I like about him?　Not much at all (lol). But after the band got back together, I found that he’s grown more amenable and when drinking, we could even talk about the times when we didn’t get along. I think it’s adorable whenever he said things like, “I really want to punch myself from back then” though. (Lol)

 

 

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In search of a place to belong — Interview with ISSAY

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Translation: Yoshiyuki
Images: Yoshiyuki

DER ZIBET | [Jul 2017] Après-guerre Reissue Vol.5: Der Zibet — ISSAY + HIKARU

Posted on by Yoshiyuki

Der Zibet
ISSAY + HIKARU

Après-guerre Reissue Vol.5
July 2017

Since their reunion, Der Zibet continued activities with their unique stance and has now released 20 Seiki (20世紀 / 20th Century), a best-of album comprising of songs they released in the 20th century, as selected by the members of the band. There is no question that even those who have recently become fans will be able to enjoy their live performances even more after listening to this album. And to those who aren’t very familiar with them yet, I invite you to have a taste of their remarkable legacy.

 

PROFILE
Debuting in 1986, ISSAY’s presence and their one-of-a-kind band image and music won them an ardent following. Kirigirisu (キリギリス) was the last album they released before they ceased activity. 10 years passed before they reunited. Since then, they have kept active at their own pace with live performances and music releases.

■OFFICIAL HP
http://derzibet.com/

 

 

――What gave you this idea to release a best-of album?

HIKARU (H): Around the end of our 30th debut anniversary year, talk about going through some record company to release it started up but since these are old releases, things are complicated with the rights so even though we originally intended to release it last year, it ended up being this year. In the beginning, things were moving along pretty smoothly but setbacks came in at the very end (wry smile). Feels like we finally released it.

――How did you feel when you got confirmation that it was going to be released?

H: Happy, right?

ISSAY (I): Because we never thought it could be. It was the sort of situation where we were questioning whether something like this was even possible.

H: Also because this is the first time we had the freedom to choose all the songs in a best-of album.

――How did you pick the songs?

H: Ultimately, we focused on songs that we perform live. We’ve done live performances of all the songs here.

I: Even if we did include songs that we don’t perform, that’s no fun, is it? There’s an increase in those who aren’t fans from way back, and they voiced out that it’s difficult to get their hands on original releases from those days too. Which also means there are a lot of songs we perform live that they don’t know, aren’t there? So, you see, it was quickly decided that this would be based on the songs we perform in our shows. Then HIKARU came in with, “What do you think about something like this?” and shared a draft with us. From there, [discussions] were like, don’t you think including this is better than that, and all that.

H: Cutting [the number of songs] down was more difficult, wasn’t it? Because we chose a little too many. Everyone was suggesting this and that.

I: While drinking, yes (lol).

H: In the mastering stage, we couldn’t fit [all the tracks] into the first CD (wry smile). We had to revise a bunch of things. Besides, if we were back in the vinyl record days, it’d be a 4-piece release, this collection.

――It’s quite a hefty one, isn’t it? Among the songs, the only newly recorded one is Neo Flower Moon. Why did you choose to record a studio version of it at this point in time? It’s from 1986, isn’t it?

I: We intended to put in in the previous album, Bessekai (別世界 / Another World). We had that in mind but the number of songs we made for Bessekai grew too large so then we again decided to put it back in storage. And now it finally gets to see the sun here.

H: The topic of recording it never came up in the past, and even though we’re only doing it now, it doesn’t feel out of place at all. Although it’s a song from 1986, it doesn’t feel weird to place it within Bessekai, and it’s fine that we do it only now, too. That’s some sort of interesting.

I: It’s something we’ve been dragging out until now so I guess it’s just good that we’re finally doing it now.

H: It’s like a homecoming.

I: And we basically kept the arrangement the same too.

――Even the lyrics?

I: I made adjustments in some parts but it’s basically unchanged, yes.

Often described as unorthodox¹

――Are the two discs meant to feel like they are split chronologically?

H: The songs we released through BMG are indeed in the second CD but that’s a good thing, isn’t it? On the contrary.

I: Because there are a lot of BMG era songs that we started to play after our reunion, aren’t there?

H: The last album we released was Kirigirisu (キリギリス / Grasshopper) and then our activities came to a halt so we didn’t manage to do a tour for it. It was pretty interesting playing the songs from that album after we came back together. We ended up recording a lot [of songs] for disc 2 so I think it’s good that we had them divided like that. Included are also really unorthodox songs that would make people wonder why they’re in a best-of compilation, but they’re a perfect fit for the present, right?

――Do you feel that there’s some reason why you don’t feel uncomfortable playing these songs again now, 30 years later, after so much time has passed?

Both: ……

I: We both fell silent (lol). This time, since we have such a quantity, we were able to include unorthodox songs, especially those from our BMG era. There are unorthodox songs in the first CD too, but whatever people used to call unorthodox back then doesn’t feel as unorthodox as it used to now in present times. After 30 years, we’re finally not unorthodox (wry smile).

――Is that because societal values or something like that have changed with the times?

I: I think that’s one reason, and also that we are now able to easily execute the little things we do in our music. We’re now capable of doing them without needing to strain for it. That’s definitely a thing, isn’t it? Otherwise we definitely wouldn’t include songs like Club Idiot, normally (lol). But when we play them now, it feels good. It feels much better now than it was back then.

H: There are songs that we would never play in this day and age (wry smile). Something just wouldn’t feel right. The music and the melody or the arrangement or something else just wouldn’t be right. Like songs from our third album or something, there are some that we get asked to play but there’s no question that we definitely don’t want to (wry smile).

I: Probably, those songs, I think the fact that they’re over-produced contributes to it too.

H: There might have also been an element of trying to do more in an effort to sell well.

I: Besides, there are also [songs] that we did because we were told to try and do something less unorthodox. Not to say that we did that unwillingly, but because we did that, it also means that we’re straying off our centre line, doesn’t it? Back then, we didn’t know what our centre line was, but now, I would think we know where it lies.

――Maybe it doesn’t feel weird even after 30 years because that centre line sticks out.

I: It’d be cool if I said that it stuck out, but we can’t do anything else. I think basically, when we four or five come together to play, this is the only brand of music we’re capable of making. And that’s something I find particularly intriguing these days. I don’t get the sense that anything’s come through, you know? 

H: Back then, fun times were complicated by unpleasant times. Now, digging up the stuff that we did in the past to play is enjoyable. In those days, we weren’t exactly a fun band having fun.

I: Now you said it (lol).

H: It wasn’t a band where four people made music happily (wry smile). Neither were we a group who got along well with each other. In comparison, we’re actually on much better terms now. It’s way more fun now than it used to be.

――Why’s that? What’s different?

H: Because ISSAY got good at singing.

I: Oy! (Lol)

H: Now I can say that we can peacefully have drinks together and chit chat. We’re not clinging to the past because we want to create new things. Steadily evolving like this is fun.  This is a different feeling than what it used to be. Because back then, since we were signed to a major record label, there were other things to contend with like how the next album had to be delivered after a certain amount of time. Now we can spontaneously release new songs or albums.

――Basically, you do whatever you want.

I: During the 10-year break, I think we came to understand our mutual characteristics. When we started things up again, we really understood our respective attributes.

H: Because playing with the same band members means that we would know their habits from those days.

To feel the passage of time

――That’s also a change caused by the length of time, isn’t it? You mentioned that you don’t feel any discomfort with the songs themselves, but do you perhaps feel the youth in it or something like that?

I: In regard to these songs, there are indeed those that I don’t think I would presently write. There are a lot that I think I could only do because of the folly of my youth, or I could only write because I didn’t understand all that much. I think I probably possessed a strength I didn’t know I had.

――When you say that there are lyrics that you wouldn’t write in the present day… it isn’t about ISSAY-san, is it?

H: Because ISSAY doesn’t stray from his path. I’ve finally come to understand that. I used to think that it would be better if he would write lyrics that were easier to understand, but after the band came back together, we spoke about a lot of things. And when we were working on Primitive, topics like what eternity means to ISSAY came up. He often talks about eternity [in his lyrics] but I wanted to understand the heart of it. After that, I started to think that the lyrics he wrote back then were actually pretty good too (lol). That’s why I say that ISSAY doesn’t stray from his ways.

I: I certainly don’t. Looking at them now, there are lyrics that I think could’ve had a little more ingenuity in them, you know?

H: Because we’re comfortable now. Like the lyrics of Bessekai songs ended up reading like they’re showing you some sort of visual media. Although if you knew what it meant, you’ll probably be able to get a deeper understanding of the unhesitating lyrics from those days which looked like you wouldn’t be able to get it unless you listened to it.

――But don’t you think that things like lyrics have a greater tendency to change?

I: It’s not about writing because I want to write, but instead, I write because something took shape in my mind. Like a landscape or an event; whatever comes to mind, wins.

――Are there instances where you listen to an old song and feel that you probably wouldn’t be able to do the same thing in the present?

I: I think I was attuned to whatever was specific to each era, so I probably chose whatever fit best. But given the way my lyrics are, they won’t really give the impression that they’re dated, so I think they’re relatable even now. I don’t think it’s weird even if we take them out to play in this manner, right?

H: With titles like, Matsu Uta (待つ歌 / Waiting), Shizumitai (沈みたい / I Wish To Sink). Amazing. huh?

I: Matsu Uta just happened to turn out like that, though. It’s a waiting song, so it’s an alias, like, “Let’s do a song about waiting”. When I said that, Chikada Haruo-san said, Matsu Uta as a title is good. So, then, I decided we’ll name it Matsu Uta.

H: And because that’s our debut single, right? It only gets even more messed up from there. Shizumitai was a peculiar one too, wasn’t it? People would ask what’s Shizumitai supposed to mean? But now it’s intriguing. Back then, the only thought I had was, “Are there no cooler-sounding song names?”

I: Because all of us were rebellious, weren’t we? Sticking to what defined rock to us and all that. That’s why things were difficult, back then. We’d butt heads over that, you know? But I also think if we didn’t have those conflicts, then we wouldn’t be here now, anyway. I think it was very important that we fought right there and then while in the midst of production.

H: Production is fun now, isn’t it?

I: We still have conflicts on occasion but those are good conflicts, you know? This album is the product of conflicts but these days, we are capable of taking it normally so it’s good, isn’t it?

H: We’re all really thankful that we can release this at this time.

I: We’re thankful, and we’re just glad. In this album, we arranged the songs as if we were putting together a setlist for a live performance. Like, it’ll sound so good if this song came after this one. And I think that’s the most impressive thing about this album.

H: Arranging them, it felt like we could put on about three whole shows just like that.

――And who came up with the album name?

I: When we were having drinks, I suggested, “What about 20 Seiki?”

H: He likes T-REX and all, so he initially proposed titles like 20th Century Boy. Saying, “20 Seiki Shounen (20世紀少年 / 20th Century Boy) is a great name, isn’t it?” “Don’t you think it’s a good idea to have 20 Seiki come after Bessekai?” 

――It sounds really odd when I hear it like this. We’ve already been in the 21st century for quite some time now, haven’t we? And yet it doesn’t feel dated.

I: Exactly. It’s like saying what you’re currently hearing is what we did in the 20th Century (20 Seiki). And it’d be great if that’s the impression it gives people. Because I think that’s the way we meant for it to be.

――It’s a wonder why it doesn’t feel old though, isn’t it?

I: Because we don’t pander to trends (wry smile). We couldn’t keep up to whatever was trendy. And that turned out to be our fortune (lol).

H: These songs were angled for the band, so simply put, we weren’t sellable (wry smile), but now, that’s a good thing, isn’t it? If any one [of our works] turned out to rake in the cash, then I think everything would start revolving around it, or we’d never remove ourselves from it. After all this time, I think that’s good for us.

――I believe there are a lot of people who would be happy to hear it.

I: Because the album itself is interesting, isn’t it?

――Have you been called unorthodox¹ since your reunion?

H: These days, the world is filled with unorthodox things, so. What we do is legitimate, isn’t it?

I: Basically saying, in the end, we were right (lol).

――I’m sure you’d like for everyone to listen to this best-of collection and enjoy your live performances even more than ever.

H: And we’ve got a pretty tight schedule for the rest of this year, don’t we?

I: We’ll start producing our next album soon.

――Very ambitious! We’ll look forward to it.

 

 

 

Notes:

¹ マニアック (maniakku), literally read as “maniac” has been translated as “unorthodox” in this interview. Despite how it reads, its definition is more closely related to being obsessed with very specific or niche topics. In other words, something that isn’t generally accepted in mainstream society. Thus the translation choice here.

 

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki
Scans: Yoshiyuki

 

 

ISSAY | [15 Aug 2023] Ongaku to Hito:【Remembering ISSAY】See you again at Sad Cafe, someday

Posted on by Yoshiyuki

【Remembering ISSAY】
See you again at Sad Cafe, someday

Ongaku to Hito
15 August 2023

text by Imai Tomoko
First image: A picture published in the February 2003 issue of the magazine (photographer ＝ Kasai Chikashi）

 

On 5 August 2023, the vocalist of DER ZIBET, ISSAY passed away due to an unforeseen accident.

Here is a passage about the artist that he was with the one-of-a-kind presence he exuded with each different worldview and his distinctive sense of aesthetic. Penned by writer Imai Tomoko-san who has been acquainted with him since DER ZIBET’s debut, it covers ISSAY’s life and the person he was as an outstanding artist who not only worked with music, but also an actor and a pantomime artist, and had considerable influence on BUCK-TICK’s Sakurai Atsushi, for starters and many, many more who came after him.

DER ZIBET’s vocalist, ISSAY has passed on.

He was bewitching as he sang in Meguro’s LIVE STATION  on the 14th of July, and was scheduled to have a joint gig with FAR EAST PHALLUS KICKER in September. The sudden news of his demise left every single person who knew him distraught, and posts from people expressing their thoughts of him continue to flow on social media.

Possessing an astounding beauty and a unique aesthetic sense, he would always offer a kind smile to anyone and everyone, but he was also well acquainted with the darker side of life. A singer, an actor, a pantomime artist; these were but some of his wide-ranging activities as a prominent artist. He doesn’t act like he’s all-knowing yet he is wise and knowledgeable in so many different things that it often surprises. There is no doubt that every person who meets someone like him will always love and have faith in him.

His stage performances were theatrical, full of aestheticism. He makes use of masks, a cane, hats and more to full effect, bringing his unique world to life. There is no other band who executes live performances in this way, so the first time I saw it, I was captivated. Also, his being a voracious reader since he was a child brought a literary flavour into the lyrics he wrote, giving them a depth that set his lyrics apart from the lyrics of pop songs which flood the streets. From Baudelaire to Edogawa Ranpo, to Capote to Mishima Yukio to Kyogoku Natsuhiko and so forth, these were authors we had conversations about from time to time.

I got to know about ISSAY when I first saw a beautiful young man Chikada Haruo-san brought to some party. Later on, I think it was the launch party for Sixty Records, the label that DER ZIBET debuted with. It was around the release of the movie The Legend of The Stardust Brothers (1984) which was directed by Macoto Tezuka and written and produced by Chikada-san.

According to a Facebook post which Tezuka wrote in memoriam of ISSAY, he said that he happened to see a picture of ISSAY that one of his staff had when they were having a meeting for the movie, and picked ISSAY out of the many candidates. His and Tezuka’s fates were strongly connected, and he later went on to act in the 2018 sequel The Legend of the Stardust Brothers, and later the movie adaptation of Tezuka’s Barbara, originally a manga written by Tezuka’s father, Osamu Tezuka.

When I actually met this handsome young man, it was at an interview for DER ZIBET’s first album, Violetter Ball-紫色の舞踏会- (Violetter Ball-Murasakiiro no Budoukai- / 1985). I remember having an awkward conversation with a well-mannered but highly guarded ISSAY. But we had a number of mutual acquaintances like Chiwaki Mayumi and Okano Hajime, so things grew more comfortable over the course of the interview. 

Always stylishly dressed in sophisticated fashion with those looks, he also looked good wearing a hat and with a cane in  hand, but as exceptionally otherworldly as ISSAY appeared, he was an unexpectedly affable, practical man. He was an adorable person who would have a wide smile on his face as he chatted with people over drinks, sometimes blurting a cheeky line or two.

Rock entered ISSAY’s world when he was in high school. He said that he was greatly inspired by musicians like David Bowie, T. Rex, Lou Reed, Sex Pistols and went to school wearing makeup. He moved to Tokyo when he was 19 and started the glam rock band, ISSAY and SUICIDES which remained active for about two years before he embarked on his solo project.

Alongside his music career, he also studied pantomime under the tutelage of Mochizuki Akira who influenced not only ISSAY’s technique in physical expression but in all facets of the arts as well, from songwriting to all the way down to lifestyle. Although DER ZIBET’s work has begun, I had the chance to watch ISSAY’s pantomime performance. As I watched him support an elderly Akira-sensei with his passionate performance, I could sense from him an energy unlike that of what he exuded when in a band.

DER ZIBET was formed in 1984. It came together when ISSAY was going to form a band with HAL (bassist), who he had been working with in his solo project, and HIKARU (guitarist), who he met through a mutual acquaintance, and at the time, MAHITO (keyboardist) brought MAYUMI (drummer) along with him. Thus arrived a non-conforming band with a beautiful vocalist straddling the lines between new wave and hard rock in an era when the term “Visual-Kei” had yet to even exist.

Embodying the contrasting styles of decadence that ranged from David Bowie to Joy Division and a rock spirit backed by bands like Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin, they were a novel concept in the music scene of those days, yet at the same time, it was a huge hurdle to them. But DER ZIBET continued as a band without succumbing to the pressure.

Their 4th album, GARDEN (1988) was the product of their first time recording in London. They worked at Maison Rouge Studios, which saw artists like Jethro Tull and Peter Murphy, with Dick Beetham, who worked on Jimmy Page’s solo work, in charge of sound engineering. I spent about a week with them for interview and reporting work, and even though they had to deal with the perplexity and unfamiliarity of working foreigners, the four of them enjoyed the London life. ISSAY loved fish and chips dipped with malt vinegar so much that he said numerous times he wanted to buy some and bring them back to Japan. It was an unusual occurrence for a man like him who was generally disinterested in food.

And it was during that same period when BUCK-TICK also came to London to record their 4th album, TABOO. In between scheduled work, they held a secret gig which all the members of DER ZIBET went to watch. BUCK-TICK’s Sakurai Atsushi spoke about how reassuring it was to have fellow brethren in the audience of their first show overseas in London during a later conversation with ISSAY.

To Sakurai, ISSAY was not only a vocalist he looked up to, but also someone who influenced his stage performance in no small way. It can be inferred that the theatrical performances that Sakurai specialises in now and his use of masks and other objects to express the worlds of his songs were things that he acquired from his relationship with ISSAY. 

To Sakurai, ISSAY was probably one of the few people who shared and validated his sense of aesthetic and sensibilities, and understood him as well. And to ISSAY, Sakurai was likely the junior who adored him the most but also, maybe, his most trusted person too. ISSAY would always be invited to BUCK-TICK’s year-end concert at the Nippon Budokan without fail, and it’s become an annual sight to see the two of them quietly drinking and talking with each other at the after-party.

DER ZIBET’s activities came to a pause in 1996. Since then, ISSAY has been actively involved in all sorts of musical collaborations. He was often called upon because of his distinctive voice and performances, and ISSAY was never one to say no.

In 1997, he formed PHY together with HAL and ex. 44MAGNUM band member JIMMY (Hirose Satoshi), he formed HAMLET MACHINE with ALLNUDE’s TATSUYA, and also formed LYnx with X JAPAN’s HEATH. Alongside Fukuhara Mari (keyboardist), their unit, ISSAY meets DOLLY was created based on the concepts of Neo Cabaret Music and Theatrical Music. I felt it was a space where ISSAY could be most comfortable.

In this unit, ISSAY often sang Alabama Song (from the play Little Mahagonny. Lyrics by Bertolt, music by Kurt Weill. Covered by artists like David Bowie, the Doors, and more). Hearing his rendition, Tsuchiya Masami called upon him to become a member of his band, KA.F.KA. With all these activities, ISSAY’s singing grew ever more polished.

When HAL made a recovery from the serious injury he sustained in an accident in 2004, DER ZIBET seized the opportunity to come back together and resumed activities in 2007. I remember how ISSAY would frequently visit HAL when he was hospitalised and how he so happily told me HAL was on the road to recovery. Facing trying times with positivity was precisely the kind of person ISSAY was.

MAHITO, who left before the band made its debut in 1985, even came back officially as a member of the band when they restarted activities this time. Since then, they have continued to perform live shows and release new works. They even kept going by streaming their shows online during the COVID-19 pandemic, and now, finally, we were just getting to the point when shows can be held and performed normally again.

Even now, the sudden news of his passing still confounds me. But I believe all the things that ISSAY has left behind will continue to be cherished and handed down in lasting legacy. Even now, he’s probably out there somewhere singing Matsu Uta, Pas Seul-ing (solo dancing). Let’s not forget the promise to “meet at Sad Cafe”. Because I don’t want my memories to turn into Nostalgia. May the soul of the ever-smiling, ever-positive ISSAY rest in peace.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki
Source: Ongaku to Hito online

 

 

DER ZIBET | [Mar 1988] SNIPER IN ‘88 — Band interview

Posted on by Yoshiyuki

SNIPER IN ‘88

Pati-Pati Rock ‘n’ Roll
March 1988

Photos by Sashi Motoko (佐志素子)
Text by Editorial department

 

The first time I came into contact with their concerts was in a live house in Shinjuku. On behalf of rock magazines, I’ve been to a few live houses but watching children being absorbed in their “kids’ meal” level of inferiority left me, in all honesty, sick of it.

On this night, the venue was packed with girls dressed up in black outfits. And for some reason, the live house was filled with an overwhelmingly charged atmosphere. On this night, DER ZIBET put on a show so manic and savage that it was more than plenty; that shook me to my core. In terms of the show itself, I did get a sense of inexperience from the structural problems and issues with the live house but in an instant, I understood what they were trying to do, and I found myself believing in them. These guys were serious, although they were also testy with impatience. 

“YOU MEET THE ROCK PARTY” is a project where we introduce rock bands we’ve selected to the readers of Pati-Pati Rock ‘n’ Roll. And kicking things off as our first band, we have DER ZIBET. We wanted to share with as many people as possible the joy and the fever that everyone gets to experience at their concerts that exemplify the “wild and danceable”. This interview with them was held after their two hall shows at Osaka’s Banana Hall and Nagoya’s HeartLand.

 

 

―― First, let’s hear about what you think of “YOU MEET THE ROCK PARTY”.

Hikaru (H): It was fun. This is just the first event but I think this is something that [people] can look forward to in future too. But I got the feeling that our reputation hasn’t quite built up yet. First-timers at our show were also starting to enjoy themselves in the second half, weren’t they? 

Issei (I): To perform an actual concert of what’s so far been spreading in print and then having the magazine make us known all over the country, it’s [a] groundbreaking [project], isn’t it? It always feels like this when DER ZIBET performs at a place we’ve never been to before. Although we’ve performed at this venue many times before, there were probably a lot of people who were seeing us for the first time, right? I was glad to see them gradually start dancing despite the case. Because things never turn out the way we expect it to.

HAL (HA): The audience weren’t our fans but a recon team, or something… They’re like people who’re here to see what kind of band we are.

Mayumi (M): It’s an honour to be the first (lol). I think this magazine has been satisfying the hearts of the audience these days (lol), so yeah, maybe it’s a good thing to bring on a little more party atmosphere.

―― Hey, wasn’t there a video? (Before the show started, a film was being screened by 4 projectors onto walls and such. Captured in it were things that each band member liked) Tell us about what you picked for that and why.

I: So, for me, my house is full of junk, y’know. I just can’t get myself to throw all these things and they pile up so much that I don’t even have space to sleep. [The things I picked for the video are] the things I see most often within that pile. A broken alarm clock. A music box. A book. A Lindsay Kemp¹ photobook. Things like that.

H: I focused on what’s in my bag. Like my driving license, my wallet, an ero-guro picture from the early Showa period.

HA: Boots, hat, beard, a Chinese doll from China atop my bass guitar. The cover of a Mingus² album. At the very end, my eye appears…… This is meant to represent an “eyeball”.

M: Ingenious (lol). As to what I chose, you know how in university there’s a library and a research lab, right? I borrowed a whole variety of books for the purpose of research and just like that, I dropped out (lol). So, those are fancy books that can never be bought with pocket change. Books about music, the arts, theatre, and so on. I picked a few out of them [for the video]. Aside from those, there’s also a Dalí³ brochure a fan gave me and things like that.

―― All your strange hobbies are being shown (lol). Right, so you’re releasing your LP soon but will your live concerts change after it’s out?

H: Yeah. Now that we’ve got this far, it feels like we can go anywhere. We’re not leaving anything behind, and besides, from this album on, we’ve included elements that make people feel and want to listen to our music in a way that’s different than before. Our live shows will probably end up with a mixed [format]…… Not only will it have a strong groove, but the flow on the whole also won’t change too, something like that.

I: I think the scale [of our shows] will grow bigger. Until now, our shows have been structured to make people go to their limits. You could say that our shows are like an hour’s sprint at full speed…… But this time, I think we’ll have a kind of tempo.

H: You know, in the past, we split [our shows] into two portions, and for the first, the audience can’t stand. We’d insist that they sit. …… Then suddenly we’d come out with oil lamps in our hands (rofl).

M: Sounds stupid, doesn’t it?

HA: We even had a street lamp erected on stage.

M: Wasn’t that around the same period? Next to the street lamp was the oil lamp, right? We did that a lot. But it wasn’t a bad thing. It’s just that, I guess it was embarrassing or something (lol).

―― Did you do that too after your debut?

I: We did at Kudan Kaikan, didn’t we? The [audience’s] reaction, wasn’t all that great (lol).

M: We did so many different things that I get exhausted thinking about it. I guess it’s sad, because we can’t get to the next level if we don’t do all this.

I: We were seriously theatrical. Yes, so theatrical that it’s nauseating. Maybe that’s the kind of nuance that comes through.

M: I think we can do it if we look at it as a form of entertainment. We’ve matured a little more now too……

HA: I want to make something like the progressive music that’s come after new wave.

―― That’ll leave an impression. In a past interview, you’ve said that what you want to do is more like a “tear [your shirt] buttons off” rather than a “undo [your shirt] buttons”.

HA: I guess in comparison, this time, we’re asking people to go off the beaten track, something like that.

 

I: Won’t putting it into words narrow [the possibilities] down? But well, yes, it’s like a state of nothingness. Or a state where there’s nothing but yourself. There are many ways to get there, and rock happens to have the essential element of aggression. Steadily stripping things down…… I guess you could say that even we are facing our true selves when we perform…… It’d be wonderful if we could turn our shows into spaces where everyone listening could do the same, don’t you think?
A while ago, I went to look at paintings…… You know, while I was viewing the art, I felt something that brought me to the verge of tears for the first time. That, in the end, is seeing the artist who drew it, right? And I could also see myself looking at it. It’s the most basic thing of all. Being able to see yourself as a human being.

―― Stripped down to the bare essentials, right?

I: The trouble with performing live is when people start to think, you know. I feel that it’s not about the words saying this or that. Rather, it should be [a sense of] “Ah, I get this.” If each and every person would feel like that, wouldn’t that be great?

―― So it’s not about persuading them.

I: When you listen to rock, [the most important thing is] that sensation of the very first thing you felt, right? That feeling of being forced to strip naked. The way it’s so unexpected. Making you wonder how it got you like this. That’s the one powerful thing rock music has. Rather than persuading you, it strips you naked and leaves you outside. That’s why, it makes you feel what you want to do instead of making you think about it.

―― You know, these days, pop songs that have always been so popular are now on the decline. Recently, I read the data that an advertising agency released and there’s one part in it that said we’re moving from the era of expressing “something similar to the heart” to expressing “the heart itself”. It has to be real if it’s going to work. How composed are you? How serious are you? There’s a stereotype, and people are no longer looking at the sweet. That’s the kind of era it’s going to be. Isn’t it amazing? Well, you could of course say it’s no surprise. That’s just the conclusion this advertising agency came to after studying the trends.

M: We want to become the leaders in that sense, though. For the kids 40 years in the future to be good people and follow the rules and keep their acts together…… Spiritually speaking, everyone ends up the same in the end, right? But the truth is that every single person is different. Although no two people are alike, we’re all really one human race. So to what extent can we express ourselves?   Socially speaking, it’s not accepted much, is it? But with music, we’re free. I think more and more people are starting to feel that way. [With music,] we can show ourselves off in a civil manner, not physically or violently. This way, it’s peaceful, we’re making music, right? For us, we were born in the mid-1950s, so I think we’re the first generation to realise what the younger generation thinks these days. Those older than us don’t really matter. Because they can do whatever they like and they’ll die first. It’s the younger generation.

I: They somehow believe things too carelessly, don’t they?

HA: But, you know, haven’t we always been cynical ever since we were kids? Then we’d brush it all off as a joke…… Come to think of it, that makes it difficult to tell what’s actually real.

I: You can’t really tell who’s friend or foe.

H: Because words like “That’s rank” and “Tragic” and all that were always on our lips. If something’s really moving to you, you’d say it’s rank⁴. Now we’re past that, right? We don’t use these words so lightly now. It’s exaggerated, right?

M: I guess it’s like the old days.

I: We just hope that the era where people are convinced they’re safe would end. From the perspective that everyone should take things seriously, you know?

H: But that we think that we can do that through music and lyrics. We want to think about it, but we don’t want to put it out there directly.

M: Because doing that is authoritarian⁵, right……

I: Ultimately, just one field is enough……⁶

―― Have you decided on the title of your LP?

I: DER ZIBET.

―― That’s straightforward. Why?

I: To say that this is “DER ZIBET”.

H: We could’ve come up with a one-word title or something, but we feel that there are still many people who don’t know us so…… We figured that this would be the most straightforward way to get that across.

M: This is our company (lol).

HA: With a capital C.

―― What does DER ZIBET mean though?

H: What it means is, well, the word “ZIBET” is what the civet cat is called in both English⁷ and German, but the “DER” that comes before it is a definite article in German that has been altered to an English reading. Germans wouldn’t know this word (lol).

―― So what about the single you’re releasing on 21 March?

I: It’s Only “You”, Only “Love”.

―― Why did you choose to make this the first cut?

I: Because it’s got good energy (lol). We really hope people will listen to it.

 

 

DER ZIBET is a band that has now just started to have a voice. Because they have finally broken out of their societal situation; of being too manic an artist. And also, because their self-titled album DER ZIBET will also be released on 21 March. The experimental approach that they have taken so far will probably continue in future too. But this attitude of ensuring satisfaction before moving on is, I believe, also one of the purest forms of rock ‘n’ roll history. I hope they will keep rocking forever with this purity. And also, that their live shows and albums will knock us clean out.

 

 

 

 

Notes:

¹ Lindsay Keith Kemp was a British dancer, actor, teacher, mime artist, and choreographer. He was probably best known for his 1974 flagship production of Flowers, a mime and music show based on Jean Genet’s novel Our Lady of the Flowers, in which he played the lead role of ‘Divine’. Owing to its homosexual themes and perceived decadence, reviews were sometimes hostile, but it was widely considered a theatrical and sensory sensation, and it toured globally for many years. He was also a mentor to David Bowie and Kate Bush.

² As in Charles Mingus, an American jazz double bassist, pianist, composer, and bandleader. A major proponent of collective improvisation, he is considered to be one of the greatest jazz musicians and composers in history, with a career spanning three decades and collaborations with other jazz musicians such as Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, and Herbie Hancock.

³ Salvador Dalí.

⁴ The original word here is クサイ (kusai) which is normally a descriptor for something that smells, or just to say that something stinks. But in this context, they’re obviously referring to some old slang interpretation of クサイ which no longer exists. I can’t think of any similar sort of slang/trend phrase in English, so I picked the rather questionable option of “rank”.

⁵ The word Mayumi used was “fascism (ファシズム)”. I didn’t use that direct translation because the implied meaning of it has probably evolved over the years to possess different connotations than it probably did back in the late 80s.

⁶ I don’t really know what he’s referring to but here’s the original text for your consideration:
あくまで、ひとつのフィー ルドでいいと……

⁷ Since this is an English translation, we know that’s not true lol. I believe he’s definitely talking about the word “Civet” but is just a little mixed up with the pronunciation of it.

 

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki
Scans: morgianasama on LJ

DER ZIBET | [Oct 1987] Pati-Pati Rock ‘n’ Roll: An Interview with ISSAY and Hikaru

Posted on by Yoshiyuki

DER ZIBET

Pati-Pati Rock ‘n’ Roll
October 1987

 

 

DER ZIBET’s concerts blow you away. They understand what it means to entertain the audience. Through repeated experimentation and destruction, they crept ever closer to their true form. —— But first impressions are important. They’ve been too straightforward with expressing their superabundance of energy that they’re being heavily misunderstood. Will this 3rd album that they’re working on be the answer?　We’ll find out in this interview with Issei¹ and Hikaru¹.

 

 

DER ZIBET, also known as Derujibe (デルジべ). I think they’re a band dogged by the problem of having an awfully vague image. The kind that has you thinking you know them but at the same time, you don’t. Sandwiched between misconceptions and being misunderstood, they look out of place for some reason. Perhaps they have truly arrived in a situation where they have to be serious about their image and the preconceived notions that are at the forefront of what creates a fair representation of themselves.

“I’m confident that if they listen to our music, if they watch our concerts, people will understand who we are, but I’m not sure how to make them listen to us. Like those people who don’t know anything about us at all, those whose idea of us is still that same image of decadence, all of them.”

“Besides, it’s not as if we’re a closed-in band, you know?”

Hikaru and Issei are a bit irritated.

But that is, I dare say, a positive frustration.  Because they’re so strongly confident of who they are as a band, they exceedingly detest the idea of being classified by their image. On one hand, it’s been said that their music had changed a lot between the 1st and the 2nd album, but at the same time, there are few who understand the current DER ZIBET.

Keeping that in mind, they are now as good as a new band who just made their debut. That much makes sense when we consider that in the three years since the formation of this band, the number of concerts they have played is the most concentrated in the past year.

The progression of this band that seems to be riding the wave of their “Alright, here we go” momentum is undoubtedly fast. Now that they have finally started their engines, where could they possibly be headed?

That being said.

I’ve never heard their 1st album and I’m a typical human being who judges based on first impressions. When you mention DZ, Issay² immediately comes to mind, and when you mention Issay², I’d immediately associate him with being the pantomiming oniisan…… I am ignorant to the point of having such an impressively simple thought process, if I do say so myself. That’s why I was thrown off when I saw the Baby, I Want You music video. It was a form of culture shock. It was a lively song of the sort that gets you dancing up a sweat. But it was such a big change that I definitely wondered, “What happened?   Who are these people?” Sometimes, equating a band’s evolution with growth confuses people. This is especially so for a band like theirs where there is an extreme “suddenness” in their transition “from stillness into motion”.

“I don’t have a problem with it, but I don’t get it.”

Without quite knowing what to think of it all, I hesitantly went ahead with the interview.

 

―― What do you think about how you used to be?

Hikaru (H): I think we didn’t have as much power as we do now, but it’s basically no different than what we’re doing now.

Issei (I): Yeah. I don’t think the essence of it has changed, but the musical style and the appearances of what we put out have certainly changed.

―― You’ve probably been asked before, but how did this happen?

H: Things just naturally turned out like this while we were going around on tour, though.

I: I guess you could say, it was since about the time of the Revenge of Electric Moon tour that we turned our focus to dance, or rather, made [our music] easier to grasp.

H: Because we enjoyed it when we actually got down to doing it, you know?

I: Something about it just makes your body move on its own, right? I guess it’s that sensation that makes a seated audience get up and start dancing.

―― So, recently, dance beat bands have been garnering a lot of attention…… Is that why you’re…?

I: But we’re not making disco music. You see, we’re making dance music that falls in the genre of rock. Besides, I think even punk music can become dance music, so I think we can make dance music that comes from such a stance. But there aren’t any such bands in Japan, so I guess that’s where it’s easy for people to get misconceptions of us. If we’re talking about dance bands in Japan, I suppose it’d just be TM³, right?

H: They’re not a rock band, though. That’s why I feel that it’s hard to label us as a dance band.

―― But I listened to your 2nd album and as far as that is concerned, I thought it wouldn’t have been odd to call you a dance band, or rather, in a way, that’s how it turned out……

I: Yeah, I suppose it might seem complete if you’re looking at it from a dance perspective, but we wanted to become more powerful. More rock-sounding, or rather, more wild, I suppose. Also, there are some parts in our second album that seem sophisticated, so instead of that, we wanted to make music that’s more stripped-down, the kind that’s fierce and comes right at you.

H: Besides, there’s no point in making rock music sophisticated.

I: Exactly. You might as well do something else.

―― There’s also the way you all look. Like, Issei’s silhouette looks very thin compared to the other 3 members. And no matter how much you try, that just doesn’t tie in with rock music terms like ‘wild’, does it? So even if I do know what ‘wild & danceable’ is in my head, you won’t come across as a clear definition of it.

H: And that’s what we call a weapon. I believe there are a lot of rock bands that are made up of 4 big-boned members who 4 charge right into you. We may be slight, but you could say that we’re leaning towards being on the fine-edged side of things. In that sense, we’re not just a band that plays 8-beat music, but also 16-beat.
Besides, performing live is what we’re most confident in right now, so I think the impression that we give now is might be a far more brazen one that before. What’s rock-like about us is the parts of our performance that aren’t decided; the improvisation that we do so in any case, I’d like people to come and watch us play.

―― Another thing about DER ZIBET that hampers is the lyrics that Issei writes. It’s pretty much abstract poetry, isn’t it?

I: Basically, I think it’s straightforward, but I realise that what feels like everyday life to me is far removed from what everyday life generally is. Like when there’s a lot of imaginary elements, I’ve been told that it’s cold. That’s why I figured that I need to come up with things that are more relatable to everyday life. I think it might be a good idea for me to a little further forward too. With lyrics where you can see that there’s a second party, where you can tell there’s a “you” involved. And writing write lyrics that are obviously being sung to a particular someone. I think that’s how we’re going to do our 3rd album.

―― Why?

I: I suppose that’s what you’d call broadening our horizons, right? Because no matter how simple we make our rock and roll music, if no one understands the lyrics, then it gets us nowhere, right? So that’s why we have, or rather, want to diversify.

H: That’s why I think our 3rd album will bring across an even clearer message that “This is DER ZIBET.”

―― Finally, please share what’s the outlook for your 3rd album.

H: We plan to release it next year; either in January or February, and the concept for it is pop. What we intend to do is to make rock music that encompasses what we think is pop and those danceable elements as well. In short, we want to make use of our band members’ experimental spirit and expand our horizons so we don’t want to make things too rigid. And this time, it’ll be almost as if we’re working on 2 projects because we’ve asked Okano-san⁴ from Pink⁵ and Kisaki-san⁶ to produce for us.

I: We’re really taking on this challenge, you know. For people like Okano-san and Kisaki-san, if we don’t get involved, [the music] will definitely end up getting steeped in their signature styles, right? So we’re going to get into this like we would a fight. We have to drink without getting drunk. The outcome of this fight will probably be in our 3rd album.

H: In that sense, it feels like we’re bringing in new blood. Really, I can’t understand Kisaski-san. I do get the musicians he brought up (Sawada Kenji, Kikkawa, etc.) though. I’m looking forward to this.

I: It’s more distinct with bands, isn’t it? Because I think [their sounds] aren’t really audible among the music that the 4 band members are already making. Although I suppose they’d add depth to our sound by adding a horn section or keyboardist, right?

H: I get a dilemma, you know. When I have to express sounds using words. But you see, it’s because we don’t pander to everything. We make the music we want to make and  we want them to understand that we want to be accepted for that.

I: Depending on the band, I suppose there are those whose style is to stick to one thing and go all the way with it, but that’s not the kind of band we are. I think we’re a band who changes as we go along, and I think we’re capable of making all kinds of music too.

H: That said, it’s not like we’re throwing away our past. It’ll always be kept somewhere in the back of our minds so we can bring it back out whenever we want. And right now, I guess you could say that we have confidence in ourselves when it comes to rock music for a number of reasons.

I: I guess we’ve been tumbling around, and we’ve finally learnt how to roll so that’s why we’re so confident in that.

H: When we were doing negatively, we didn’t know what to do if accidents were to happen, but now, we’ll be okay no matter what happens. We’d think that we can probably pull it off. That is something that each one of us can confirm, and it really feels like we’ve got our groundwork laid. Because of that, we’re also attracting attention in the streets now…… This is still the starting line. And we’re always in search of words and themes.

 

Contrary to their appearance and their image, there was a blunt and rugged rock band under the surface. What on earth had I been baffled and confused by…… In one sitting, I felt like an idiot. “I’m happiest when our fans happily come back and say that they enjoyed it even if they don’t really understand it,” said Issei. “It’s the same as making a woman climax. Captivate [them] in that moment (lol),” said Hikaru.

Those blatantly rocker statements blow away all the silly prejudices. What the hell, they’re a rock band, that’s all — This is no longer a question of “know, or don’t know”. DER ZIBET is DER ZIBET, and that is self-explanatory enough.

 

 

 

 

Notes:

¹ The interviewer wrote their names in Katakana as イッセイ (issei) and ヒカル (hikaru). I’ll be spelling their names as written.

² Yet here the interviewer chose to use “Issay”. I suppose this is a deliberate distinguisher between the person and the stage persona.

³ Referring to TM Network, a Japanese rock/new wave/pop band that formed in 1983 and made their major debut in 1984.

⁴ Okano Hajime was a bassist in the band Pink. He is also a keyboardist, composer, arranger & producer working with Japanese rock bands like 44 Magnum, D, Asagi, Dead End, L’Arc~en~Ciel and many more. View his credits here.

⁵ Pink was a late 1980s new wave band from Japan. They formed in 1983 as a collaboration between Vibratones member Fukuoka Yutaka and Hero member Kamiyama Hoppy. Each member of the band was an established musician in their own right and they continued to work on solo projects while involved with Pink until they finally disbanded in 1989, ending the production of new material.

⁶ Kisaki Kenji (木崎賢治) is a Japanese record producer.

 

 

Translation: Yoshiyuki
Scans: morgianasama on LJ